Curious Question - Ana - You said something so important...
I have been thinking a lot about this lately, and I am asking due to so many situations I read about on here, as well as a situation my very good friend is going through that is somewhat similar.
I feel that the majority - if not ALL - of the women and men on here are self-sufficient, capable, employed or a SAHM (that's employed in my opinion). We all seem to be very STRONG women, with pretty strong personalities. We may not agree with each other's viewpoint or way of doing things, but we ALL HAVE OUR OPINIONS AND FEEL OUR RIGHT TO OUR OPINIONS. This actually even gets us into pretty intense disagreements on this very board. Our emotions run high, as well as our right to "defend" ourselves.
My question is this - and please excuse the wording, because I am trying to get it out right, but I am not sure how it will read across. Feeling as though I know this about the women on here, why do so many on here actively acquiesce to the wishes / demands of others - DH's, Skids, and BM's most of all. And acquiesce is the perfect verb here. THE DICTIONARY DESCRIPTION OF ACQUIESCE IS TO ACCEPT SOMETHING RELUCTANTLY, BUT WITHOUT PROTEST.
I am wondering if this is a pattern in your lives with other relationships? Friends, co-workers, family, etc? Or is this a specific pattern you follow with DH, Skids, and BM? And if only with DH, BM, Skids... Why?
Here's some of the sentences that make me wonder this...
"If I were to say that to DH, he would..."
"DH won't support me, so I will just not say anything..."
"BM is the mom, and since I am not taking her place, I cannot have an opinion on...."
Sometimes we ourselves buy into the whole "I am not the mom, so I can't say sh*t on this." Sorry - but I personally believe that is the biggest line of crap that ANYONE will tell you. I have never followed that line of thinking.
Anabihibk wrote this point much more succinctly when she wrote "Don't let her idiocy stop you from doing what you want to do for them." http://www.steptalk.org/node/32496
I understand sometimes putting your own needs or opinions on the back burner - SOMETIMES. I don't understand having it as part of your day-to-day relationship.
So I then ask - WHY? Why would you do that? Why would you be afraid to question BM? Why are you afraid to just tell DH exactly how you think and feel - and let HIM DEAL with what you are saying? What? Will he be angry? Break up the relationship? And if that really was the final outcome... If you really stood up 100% for what you think with him, and he does break up with you... how much worse off are you? How much worse off is he, if he is willing to forgo the relationship because he feels so strongly about it??
Recently, my very very best friend has been having relationship issues. The problem is, this girl ALWAYS has relationship issues, and they are generally of the same type with her SO's. She meets them and is independent and free-spirited. She allows them to come and go out of her life. They have fun. She goes out with them on their turf, their terms. She makes little requests here and there, but generally just goes along for the ride with whatever they are doing.
As the relationship progresses, and the guys give in more and more to her, her requests become DEMANDS and she starts verbally pushing these guys into doing things they are not really comfortable doing. So, the musician that she dated and went to see him play every weekend night for 5 years, all of a sudden needs to give up a weekend of playing so they can go out (her demand). If he doesn't give up his "job" - because his job is as a musician, he "doesn't care about her or their relationship". Well, that's not what she said or asked for for the first 5 years, so why now, all of a sudden?? That was the last guy. This new guy lives 3 hours away. She met this guy and they went out every single weekend to dinner, drinking, partying, and traveling. She talked him into buying a house with her - when he doesn't even live in this area! And now, she wants him to retire early and give up his job and come live here with her. He's not ready to retire because it is a difference of about $20,000 in his pension! BOTH OF THESE GUYS went along and went along because they really love her, and know she's a good person. But they have both got to a point where they started to buck. Instead of her being happy with what she did have, she badgers and fights and guilts and nags them until they either 
give her what she wants next, or (b) break up with her. The musician broke up with her. This guy??
Who's at fault here? My friend... who wants what she wants and won't stop going after them until she gets it? Or the guys'? Who go along and go along and then decide - "Enough"! When they tell my friend "I never wanted this", or "I never wanted to buy this house", or "I am not going to do this", she will actively and knowingly decide to keep fighting with them until they break - one way or the other. And I will tell you that my friend, as much as I don't like it, will pull out all the stops and say "Well, then we'll just break up" or, "We'll just sell this house"... after she talked a guy into buying with her. She talked 2 guys into buying a house with her. The first ended very poorly. This next guy seems on the way to the same end. I tried to talk to her about her actions, and she has now cut me off. She is very angry with me for pointing out HER RESPONSIBILITIES in some of her own situations.
I think a lot about the women on here. Who are sometimes in the position of my friend, but more often in the position of her SO's. My opinion is if my friend acted at the beginning like she acts later in the relationship, the relationship would never have gotten off the ground. Her fault is that she drastically changes who she is and what she wants. The guys' fault is that they never stand up enough to her demands as she is making them, and eventually become angry and mean toward her.
From this point forward, I honestly believe and truly would advise anyone willing to try it - TO NOT LET ANYONE ELSE'S IDIOCY STOP YOU FROM DOING WHAT YOU WANT TO DO AND NEED TO DO FOR YOURSELF.
This can be interpreted a lot of ways. But I guess, generally, my question to you is... What would happen if you did what you needed to do for yourself? And why is that possibility stopping you from doing so (if it is.)
Am I making sense?
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Oooh!!! My name's in the
Oooh!!! My name's in the title of the blog! Ok, now, I'm going to read it.
I feel special. 
Sorry it's so long. I really
Sorry it's so long. I really need to learn brevity!
In my original relationship
In my original relationship that brought me to this site, I was so broken, hurt, angry, and AFRAID. That's what often drives my acquiescence (on the rare occasion that that happens). Fear. I was supposed to be building a life with that man. We were six months out from the wedding. My dress was bought, the flowers were picked, the menu planned. All that was left were the invitations. And, here, I'm suddenly in the position of being a stepmom to twins that were conceived during my relationship, or being alone, and having wasted all that money (which wasn't that much in the end and far less expensive than the therapy that would have occurred during that relationship and after the expensive divorce). Fear led me to stay. But, when I was ready to let go, I let go. What made me ready? AN IDIOT BM WHO TRIED TO TELL ME WHAT MY PLACE WAS WHEN SHE SCREWED MY FIANCE AND HAD A CONDOM BREAK WHILE ON THE PILL AND ENDED UP WITH FRATERNAL TWINS! Really? You don't want me to repeat what I told her her place was. }:) I'm feeling a bit sassy today. I got so sick of her bs, that I was done acquiescing.
So, I don't really think dating another person with kids from a previous relationship is a bad idea. I think being with someone who doesn't listen to my feelings and perspective and, at the very least, acknowledge them, is ever going to make me happy. I'm dating someone who listens, understands, and meets me halfway. This week, we introduced our cats. He has two, I have two, and both are girl cats are a little.... moody.
Most importantly, if BF ever thought I'd have to deal with some of the bs that people on here go through or what I went through before, he'd put an end to it. His kid is his responsibility. Sometimes, it takes me talking him into letting me be a little more hands on (making something new and interesting besides ham and cheese for son's lunch). It's a process. I'm damn lucky. He's pretty awesome. 
But, in the beginning, (and I think, Stick, this might help you to remember this with your friend), we're not comfortable to speak our minds usually. Because I wasn't looking for a relationship, but rather company for one meal, when I was dating after exFH and I broke up, I had no problem speaking my mind. In my natural state, I'm opinionated, sassy, and slightly bossy. So, when I went out, I was the same way. I think a lot of people curb their personalities to "hide" their flaws in the beginning. So, parents might curb their parenting during the limited time that a new SO sees them with their kid. New SO might not express their very different ideas on raising children so as to not off-put the parent. And, then, the issue is when does it become ok to say what you really think and be who you really are?
I love who I am. I'm a good person, and I don't need someone else to tell me that. I know I am in who my friends are. I know I am by the respect I have from my parents (two pretty awesome people). And, I knew I deserved better than what originally brought me here. So, if anyone I meet doesn't like it, I'm alright with it. We aren't all meant to get along 100% of the time, and quite frankly, that would be boring. I learn more about myself from people who disagree with me, both in what it makes me think about and in paying attention to how I respond. Hopefully, it's always with respect. I expect the same back.
That's my five dollars worth.
Thank you Ana! I knew that
Thank you Ana! I knew that you could put something great out here. I think you are right that many people "hide" their personalities and then face the question of "when" to let themselves, be themselves. I personally believe be yourself right away, and then there is no issue. And it seems to have worked for you and your new BF.
My friend's problem isn't that she is afraid to say what she wants. It's that she says what she wants, over and over again, and that's all she'll listen to. At the beginning, she doesn't want anything... she's enjoying herself. Then she starts taking over in little ways. Eventually she just steamrolls whomever is in her life to get what she wants and needs. I've seen her do this in 2 relationships, and even to me, to some extent.
What I wonder about her, though, and others in that same situation - is how much fighting is too much? To consistently fight over and over again? I think it's a personal preference, or choice on how much to fight to get what you want. But once someone gives it up - out of fear, out of being "new" and not wanting to rock the boat... it's just that much harder to establish it for ourselves later. (I think)
I agree. It does get harder.
I agree. It does get harder. I wonder in your friends position if it becomes more about being able to say she has A relationship and isn't alone than THE relationship she has with the actual person she has. She might be happy with anyone she's with or in any relationship as long as she always gets what she wants, and if she doesn't, she'll find someone who will give her what she wants, but until she gets what she wants, she's not happy.
My friends have been married for 2 years. They filed for divorce last spring. I was pissed as I worked my tail off for their wedding. That, and my girlfriend is difficult, self-centered, and has issues that she doesn't want to talk about. If you bring them up, she shuts down. I love her, but there's this weird flow to the friendship. I've known her for 10 years. We lived together in college. She met her husband about 8 years ago. They've been together a total of 3.5 years. I love him. He's funny, nice, and has a big heart. He was instant family. I was torn, and couldn't believe anything would pull them apart. Come to find out, she cheated, thought the relationship would work out with other man, and asked for a divorce. After what I went through, I don't think she'll ever tell me. He and I know, but she doesn't know we know. I encourage him to be honest, but he doesn't want to rock the boat because he's afraid to be alone, and they've reconciled because she decided she didn't want a divorce when other relationship didn't work out, without talking about anything. There's a huge elephant in the room when I visit. Right now, for both of them, it isn't about THEIR relationship or THEIR marriage. It's about A marriage and not being alone. I predict this marriage will work so long as it is convenient. And, therein, lies the problem with many relationships. Relationships - friendships, in particular, are often built on necessity. People are users. Period. Even the best of us. When a relationship no longer becomes convenient for what we need it for, we tend to let it go. But, until something makes it not convenient, we'll cling to romantic relationships because we don't want to be alone.
Wow, I'm writing novels today.
Wow Ana - I am surprised to
Wow Ana - I am surprised to hear this from you. And to disagree with you. I don't believe that all people are users. I don't. I agree that people that stay in a relationship to have ANY relationship vs. none is being a user. But a person that grows out of a relationship, or feels that it doesn't fulfill their needs shouldn't be considered a user just because they have understand themselves enough to move on. Discarding a relationship can sometimes be the most selfless and most mature thing to do. With friendships as well. Which is why I am so sad about my friend. I need her more than she needs me, but I am almost ready to walk away. Not because I don't care about her, but because I can't be the friend to her she needs, and that in turn frustrates me and make me sad. But then again, I am walking away because I don't want to hear "oh poor me" when she has so much going for her that it's ridiculous. So I don't know.
Interesting... In your friend's case, I consider the girl to be a user, since she is looking for something better, but staying with her husband because she is generally unhappy in herself, not with him so much. The man - I don't consider him a user. I consider him to be committed. If he feels that she won't change, or if she does it again and he finally moves on, that's him no longer allowing himself to be used. Very interesting though....
And I don't know the right answer to that. I just have a hard time saying that people are users. Period.
My definition of user is a
My definition of user is a little different than yours. I don't mean user as a negative term in this discussion. In my friend's case, yes, but in general for the general population and relationships in general, no. I had a very difficult time with this concept because I heard it as a negative term. Where's Colorado Girl when I need her? She and I had a discussion about this topic. It is a gross generalization/blanket statement for me to describe how relationships work. I freely admit that. But, I think that there's some truth to it. In my friend's marriage, I think he uses her just as much, but not in a socially perceived negative way. I think he uses her to not be lonely, and if/when he decides that he doesn't need a relationship to define his happiness, then that marriage will be over. Even in my relationship, where I do learn and grow from my BF, we are using each other. We are using each other to grow and have fun together. It is not a bad "use" if that makes sense. If it became a bad "use" it would no longer be convenient for me, and I would be done if effort to make it good again did not change things. I hope that clarifies what I meant a little bit. It wasn't meant to be a negative statement at all.
You make sense Ana ... I
You make sense Ana ... I think the word "use" does have a negative connotation in terms of personal relationships, but I can see what you mean. Basically - no one is in a relationship that doesn't give them SOMETHING - fulfill some need, emotional, physical, or otherwise. I do understand how you are saying it here.
Ah, yes! That was the part of
Ah, yes! That was the part of the explanation I forgot. Even though I use the things that BF gives me, I still give to him, too. It's a different sort of explanation for give and take.
HappySearch - I didn't mean
HappySearch - I didn't mean the post as a "why do people come here, vent, etc?" I meant it more along the lines of an observation that I feel.
I feel that the women on here who say what they want - regardless of the consquences - and stand strong to their convictions - are generally happier overall in their situations. That doesn't mean they don't fight with their SO's. It just means that by allowing themselves to disagree - win some / lose some and forget the rest in between - seems to give people more peace, than either
continuing to rail about how unfair it all is, all the time or (b) not saying anything out of fear.
Personally, I have made a lot of sacrifices that have been called into question by friends. Such as saying "I would NEVER do that for a man". I did it with a choice, and I guess that's why I can live with it. The feeling of control in our lives is really what we all need to be happy.
I feel the same way. I could
I feel the same way. I could never let bm control my house and what we do or how we do it. in the beginning it cause a lot of problems b/c dh also had the guilty dad thing going on too. What helped me a lot was my mil. She is a step mom and always has been. She told my dh that he needed to change the things he needed to change and she told me to back off some. But mainly she told dh that he couldn't let his kids do whatever they wanted and to make sure bm didn't control him or our house and that he HAD to set boundaries. But I set my boundaries when it came to bm before we were ever married.
I really think this is the key to relationships and if along the way one or the other wants to change something in the relationship that has been going on along but was ok with and suddenly one or the other isn;t it needs to be talked about and COMPROMISED on!