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Court Order Minutiae Help

Solidshadow7's picture

Our CO was done by a judge at trial and contains one very normal minor provision that is completely and totally unworkable for us. It states "The exchange time is between 6 and 6:30pm." The issue is, we have SS EVERY weekend. So every single Friday my DH must be home from work and leave the house by 5:15pm, and returns at around 7:30. If DH is late the BM withholds SS. When BM is late, which is often, DH ends up just having to wait there until whenever.

I understand that BM has every right to stick to the court order, but its completely ridiculous to rigidly expect this no matter what. She wouldn't budge on the time if someone was on fire. This is causing difficulty for several reasons.

1) It forces DH to have special permission to leave work one hour early every single week.

2) It is impossible to have dinner at a reasonable hour. Either the three of us have dinner at 8pm or later, (which is after SS's bedtime) or my DH and I must eat dinner at 4:30pm. I have blood sugar issues and I must eat around the same time every day or I get sick. Usually between 5:30 and no later than 6:45.

3) DH's and my entire family live a two hour flight away. SS has not been able to see them (grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc) in 2 years now because we usually only have him for 3 days at a time, which is fine except the latest flight out of our airport is at 6:30pm, which means we would have to be there by 4:30pm. The exchange time means we would have to wait until Saturday morning, and lets be honest, nobody is going to fly across the country for one night.

4) We love camping. We can't go camping anymore because its too difficult and dangerous to set up a campsite in the dark. Plus many sites won't let you in after 9, and all the sites we are aware of are 1-2 hours away.

5) We had an annual pass to an amusement park 3 hours away for DH, SS and I. Every single time we tried to go for the weekend (This was often, 1 or 2 weekends a month) there was a huge issue because either BM would hear about our plans and intentionally "get stuck in traffic" and not come to exchange until 8pm, or we'd get stuck in late night traffic ourselves and arrive at the parks with a screaming toddler at 11pm, midnight or later, it usually taking until the wee hours of the morning to get checked into the room, and then having to get up at 7am to go the parks with said toddler that is too cranky to enjoy himself because he was kept up half the night.

6)DH's and my friends have all moved away and are scattered across the state now, all of them 3-4 hours away from us. We'd love to go visit them for the weekend, but then there's all of Friday wasted and the middle of the night road trip with a small child whose bedtime is at 8pm again

In other words, any type of weekend trip or minivacation is a nightmare when you're literally not allowed to get on the road until 7-8pm. And we try to travel as often as possible. Any type of family dinner is impossible. Any type of Friday night activity is impossible because it gets too late.

Has anyone found a solution for a similar problem? Anything other than filing a motion to modify custody (no change in circumstances really, would they even allow that?) and paying probably another 20k in court costs and attorney's fees for what one would think are basic normal human rights like dinner, vacations, and the ability to see family and friends for all three of us? Or just leaving SS with psycho BM all weekend whenever we have plans that he would love to and should be able to participate in?

Comments

tog redux's picture

With a BM like that, the only way to avoid court would be to give her something she wants in exchange, and have it drawn up by attorneys. Something she REALLY wants - like every Christmas morning, or something that she deems important enough that it's a net "win" for her.  Otherwise, you are looking at a battle.

Disneyfan's picture

Can't he go to court without a lawyer?  My ex never used a lawyer,  (We are in NYC) and he never had an issue getting what he wanted(CS reductions and custody time).

One parent having every weekend is ridiculous.  Every other weekend, one full month in the summer and alternate the holidays would be more reasonable.  

How can either parent vacation with the kid under that nutty custody order?

TheEvilStepmomStrikesBack's picture

In our CO, it says that if the person isn’t available, they have to come get the child or drop them off. It also says if you’re going to be late you can call and let the other parent know. She shouldn’t be able to withhold your SS from visitation like that. 

 

I agree with the other STalkers though. Don’t play her game and she’ll get bored playing by herself. BM tried that once (she wanted us to drop SD off after 9PM because she wasn’t ready to leave her boyfriends at pickup time (6PM). Said she didn’t have gas to come get him (we stay in the middle of nowhere). But SS had school the next day so she didn’t have a choice. She was PO’d but she never tried that again (and magically found Gas  money; who’d a thunk it??) of course we were fully prepared to take him to school the next day, but she didn’t know that! 

 

It may be worth it to go back to court to address it. That truly does cause a hardship on hubby and he’s established a pattern of wanting to see his child. Maybe a letter from his boss would be helpful? Also share this info with BM beforehand. In our state variations can be allowed by the parents on time) so when she says no to meeting later, the judge will see how much of a butthole she is!!!! 

Solidshadow7's picture

Our CO also says that if you're late you have to call and let the other parent know. And that's it. She calls and says she will be 15 minutes late. Then calls and says she will be another 15 minutes late. Then another, then another. There is no stop point and no consequences for being late, as long as one calls.

TheEvilStepmomStrikesBack's picture

So how is she withholding him if DH is late if the CO stipulates that being late is ok as long as you call? 

Maybe he should put his foot down on that. She can’t withhold your SS for being late especially if it’s in the court order and he’s calling! If it’s happening often enough have her charged with contempt (for withholding him) and document everything! Most judges don’t take too kindly to people willing withholding the child from the other parent 

Solidshadow7's picture

Our BM would LOVE it if DH didn't see SS at all. She refuses to be flexible because she WANTS DH to have to cancel his weekend. That's the problem. She lives with her parents so she has no issue finding a sitter if she has the child dumped on her, and she's pulled every trick she can to completely remove DH from the child's life. The reason why she would never allow DH to pick SS up early is because it means that DH might have another minute of time to bond with HER child, thus threatening her status as his MOTHER and only parent.

The CO is heavily biased towards her, there really isn't anything for DH to trade to get him early. If he asks for an hour she says she will only agree if he returns the child a full day early. She is also severely emotionally abusing and traumatizing the child with other ridiculous behavior not mentioned in this post, so he's very hesitant on giving her any additional time (opportunity to abuse SS)

tog redux's picture

The court is not going to agree that DH loses a day if he requests an additional hour. So it sounds like he has to go to court.  But I don't blame you guys for wanting to avoid that, it will turn into a circus, no doubt, where she files a cross motion to get his visitation stopped.

I wouldn't do it, honestly, just for a family dinner or a weekend visit with family. Doesn't sound worth it to me.

Cooooookies's picture

I agree with the others...this game isn't fun if BM is the only one playing.  Your DH should email her and say that, in future, he will only wait xx amount of extra minutes.  He is making a special effort to be on time so she should as well.  If she's not there, then he'll see SS next weekend.  If DH is late and BM is already gone, send a text:  "Was there to pick up but you're already gone.  See you next weekend."

She'll soon be cutting off her own nose to spite her face as she's sure to have weekend plans sometimes.  Ignore any angry  or snotty texts.  Lather, rinse, repeat.  It's no longer a tug of war if DH lets go of the rope.

simifan's picture

This is an easy pro se win. I'd be very candid with BM. I need pick up window to be X to x:30. If you force my hand to sue you I'm going to make it worth my while... 

Although honestly, no judge is going to deny an hour change in pick up to accommodate for work. He can file and represent himself pro se. 

Notup4it's picture

I agree and I don’t think people fully understand it until you actually go to court against a PASing parent. They don’t behave like NORMAL people do. The court ONLY works IF the person respects authority and is a decent person, scared of consequences.

Most PAS parents actually INCREASE the level of PASing when confronted with court. They don’t care about the rules they can about making their ex’s life miserable, that is all that matters.  And unless the courts are actually willing to remove the child it doesn’t usually go well.

Trust me, you don’t even want to know how much $ we have spent trying to fight for the very very basic parental rights for DH- to no avail, she has just upped the game.

Thumper's picture

It IS "unreasonable" to expect dad to loose time at work EVERY weekend. Why did he agree to that court order. Does mom work weekends?

I know how you feel because  you cant make plans during his every weekend visitation because of travel time AND bm is always late.  SOOOOO, it may be time to revise court order to reflect eow and more extended time BUT not all holidays. Cracks me up bm's dont want their kids when the kids are off school.

Why on earth lawyers do not advise their ncp clients gets under my skin.... "HEY, about visitation. CP must have the child ready to go, on time for court order visits and at specified location. 2. YOU the ncp are not required to exercise visitation at all. 3. IF you decide to consistently give up your visitation you will NOT get in trouble or loose your parental rights  BUT you may want to run some child support numbers based on your overnights. Because your ex will want some more cs.

=====================

So run the child support numbers as they are right now....then run the numbers minus 24 nights.  Be prepared for what may be a new cs amount.

Now it is up to your dh....he can talk with the kids next time they come FIRST---before BM tells them  "See kids,  your daddy doesn't want you to visit his house. I DONT KNOW WHY he is doing this to you"  or something stupid.  It is ok to say "Daddy can not get out of work early anymore every Friday but my boss said I can do it every other week. So from now on 1 weekend you will be with me, the other you will be at moms.

How old are they?

When dh goes back to court---I would ask for a new order with eow, request dad do pick kids UP at moms house, or where ever and MOM does pick up at dads house when she gets the kids back.  Sounds like dh does all the driving both ways?

Dont ask bm for changes and dont give bm changes either...

DO not ever tell bm you have camping plans or plans to go anywhere. She does not need to know anything about what goes on in your home, or your family plans , or who you visit in state,,, unless your court order reflects that  out of state trips must be given to opposing parent.

  The kids can tell her when they get back to her place.   Both homes are allowed private lives. Kids DO benifit with 2 seperate dynamics and please dont let anyone tell you different.

I would be very surprised if a Judge disagrees with dh's VERY reasonable request. It is a change of circumstances because dh can no longer take off work every Friday , so, eow is reasonable...split transportation. 

IF dh does not have Christmas vacation hammered out he can bring it up then OR do what many ncp end up doing---let BM have the entire darn 2 weeks and have your Christmas the 1st week in Jan the kids come OR in December before xmas..  Oh and last thing...never ever tell bm what your buying the kids for christmas. We did out of compassion and she bought them everything we told her WE were going to get. .

Nothing like hearing "OH we got this at moms, we got this at moms too...and this...and this....

Even down to clothing----

sorry so long....this is just plain and simple craziness all the way around.