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Is this PAS?

msg1986's picture

Last weekend when Dh picked up SS6, Ss was very sad and mentioned a couple of times that he missed his mommy. Ss has never said this before and during visitation, the only time SS will talk about his mom is in passing like if we see something that he's seen with his mother he'll say, "I seen that when I was with my mommy." Dh and I thought it was weird that he was being sad about not seeing his mom but shrugged it off considering he was a little down but nothing extreme.

Well, yesterday when Dh picked up SS, Bm carried him out like he was a baby and they both looked like someone died. Dh asked Bm what was wrong and Bm stated "Oh, he's just sad because he's going to miss me" and then Ss got in the car and Bm walked back into her apartment. After that Ss melted down. He started bawling, like full on water works & was on the verge of hyperventilation. Dh asked him what was going on and Ss just kept saying "i...i....i... i just missssss my mooommmmmmyyyyy" and that "My my my.... my mommmmyy misses meeee." Dh kept trying to talk to him and what he got out of Ss was that his mom told him that she missed him so much when he leaves and that she didn't want him to go to his dads and that he didn't have to go if he didn't want to. He also said that his mom has been spending more time with him because she "finally got used" to him.... Yeah, those were his exact words-"My mommy finally got used to me". and that she finally started to "love him more" so she wants to hang out with him now.

:jawdrop:

So, for all of you that have experienced PAS, is this it??? I met Ss right when he turned 3 years old and in that time, he's NEVER been sad or asked for his mom during pick up, visitation or drop off. If anything, the majority of time, he cries when we take him home and he says he doesn't want to go back to Bm. Court is in 30 days and so I'm wondering if she's trying to ramp it up before that time? After that fiasco last night I told Dh to stop talking about it and to advise Ss that he will see his mom Sunday and that was it. We went to dinner and Ss snapped out of it. Right now he's playing with Dd and he seems like his usual self. It's just all so odd. Now that this has happened I guess I have noticed a trend that began after Bm was served. Before when Dh would pick Ss up, he would be excited and happy to see us. Since Bm has been served his attitude has changed, he seems down and withdrawn when he arrives but snaps out of it after about an hour or so. Last night though was insane, I've never seem him so emotional and desperate to see his mom. It made me really sad because I feel like this is the beginning of Bm mind fucking him.

If this is indeed PAS and of course I know time will only tell, what do we do? How do you even combat that? Should Dh ignore his behavior? Should he give him more attention? Is there really anything we can do? Gosh... From all your stories here I can only imagine how crazy things can get with PAS but I am hoping it doesn't turn out that way.

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msg1986's picture

That's what my thought was as well, that she's trying to make him feel bad for leaving her. Sad

Thank you for your advice. I'll just tell Dh to just let him know he'll see his mom on Sunday and leave it at that. Do you he should just ignore his crying and not console him? I almost feel like if Dh consoles him that Ss will see this as a reward for negative behavior and Ss has a tendency to feed into that. What do you think?

Thankfully Bm doesn't ever call during Ss's visitation so we don't have to worry about that. IF she does start to call though, which she may considering the letter she wrote to Dh's attorney stating she wasn't agreeing to the parenting plan, she stated that she often tries to call Ss during Dh's visitation but that Dh doesn't answer to let her talk to Ss. That of course was a lie. In all the time Dh and I have been together, i can count on 1 hand how many times Bm has called to talk to Ss. Anyway, I got carried away there lol, if she does start calling, should Dh tell her she's on speaker phone?

msg1986's picture

Thank you for your response Echo. Yep, Bm has always asserted herself as the alpha parents and loves telling Dh he's a "deadbeat" "horrible father" etc all in front of Ss.

Okay, I will take that info and pass it to Dh. He asked me what he should do as far as trying to talk to him too see what was wrong to try to talk it out or if he should just ignore it but I like your response of to keep it like a record and just remind him he'll see his mother Sunday and to stop. It seemed last night when Dh was talking to him, once he calmed Ss down and the subject changed, Ss would start crying again and it was as though they started back at square one. It was almost as if he realized that him behaving that way was getting him attention and he didn't want it to end.

That's what I was afraid of... I know there is nothing Dh can do to stop her from doing this but I guess I just didn't know if there is anything we can do at our home. My first thought is to do more stuff with Ss (Like more than we normally do) but I know that will just create entitlement and we don't want that. All Dh wants is for his son to be a normal little boy. He seems to being turning into a tiny little ball of anxiety and it's so sad.

msg1986's picture

I don't have the book. I've seen you mention it before but hadn't really looked into it as of yet. I've been reading links and looking at youtube videos for the past hour and this is really informative. I'm def going to order that book and movie. Thank you for the info. It's not horrible at this point but it's good to see these signs now so we can be prepared for the worst.

Yeah, I totally understand the kids needing to decompress. Transitions are hard. I wish Bm didn't hate us so much and there could be co-parenting. There shouldn't be a battle. I feel sorry for the kid. I wish nothing more for Bm to not have such hostility toward Dh and hatred for me. At this point it's Dh, Bm's boyfriend and I that get along. The only one not on board is Bm.

Lillian23's picture

I'm curious to hear the replies, too. SO and BM have 50/50 of SS7 and the longest he's with her (or us) at any given time is 5 days. Typically she drops him at school on Monday mornings after her visitation and he's fine because there's that long buffer time of the school day before he comes back to our house. Lots of opportunity for distraction. But if, for example, there's no school on Monday, like there is this upcoming week for us, she'll drop him off at our house. This means he walks directly from her car into our house (greeted by me, SM, since my SO will be at work.) This has only happened a few times, but he's definitely cried/been visibly upset when it happens. I know he loves being here, but I suspect there's very few rules at BMs house and he knows that coming back here means there are rules/expectations so he's not necessarily jumping for joy. I also think, ok, he's 7 and probably does miss his mom for a bit. Maybe he acts like that when he leaves our house and misses his dad...I'm really not sure. Usually once he starts playing with our dogs and gets settled, he's fine.

In the case of your SS, you really can't control what BM says/does when he's with her, but you can show him how much his daddy and SM love him and enjoy when he's there (if you don't love him or enjoy his company, which is totally fine, at least you can support your DH in his love for his kid.)

zea.momie's picture

My DH's ex tried this with the girls when they were little, 4&9. We told them it was normal for them to miss their mom, and for her to miss them. Then we asked them if they missed Daddy when they were with mom. They said yes. We told them that Dad missed them when they were with their mom as well, but we didn't want to make them feel bad so we didn't talk about it to them all the time. We then explained that a divorce means that we all have to share them and try to make it as easy as possible for them. We told them they could put pictures of their mom in their room, because she is their mom and they have that right, but the pictures needed to stay in their room. We used different wording with them because of their ages, but this was the jist of it and it helped a lot. They even asked to take family pictures of us to their moms and we copied some and gave them to the girls. Their mom promptly ripped them up and threw them away in front of the girls, which of course royally upset them and made them look at their mom with a different view. So her PAS attempt failed due to her own stupidity.

The girls started making a game out of sneaking pictures of us and their brothers to their moms house and school to see how long it took her to find them. We went through a lot of printer ink, but the smiles every time we replaced a destroyed photo made it worth it.

msg1986's picture

That's so sad. It's crazy to me how parents cannot see how this can affect the kids. Of course there is going to be drama if you're sitting there egging the kid on. I think it hit home for Dh too because his mom used to this to him and his siblings after their parents divorced. Dh said there was a time where MIL Chased FIL's car on foot screaming and crying waving to them. Unfortunately, Dh's brother and sister don't really have a relationship with their or their SM because MIL. She PAS'd the shit out of them so he says it hurts him because he doesn't want that to happen with his son.

msg1986's picture

Yeah, we're going to just keep our eyes wide open and see what happens. Ss can sometimes be annoying but there is def something different about him.

msg1986's picture

You could be right but there has been a change in my Ss and a lot of other things that have happened in the past few months. Ss recently let Dh know that when Bm marries her BF (they've been together a year and half-I only mention that because it's not like he's the only other father figure in Ss's life) that he will begin to call him dad and that his mom told him that he has 2 dads and 1 mom and 1 Sm. Dh had to explain to Ss that he only has 2 bio parents and once Bm and the boyfriend that he will have 2 step parents. We've also went to some school stuff for Ss recently and he looked terrified to talk to us because his mom was there-like he kept looking at her when we talked to him-almost for approval. It's just a lot of things that have happened and then with this happening yesterday and the shift in his behavior, it's just strange.

Ehhh, I don't know about what Bm said. Bm has been living w/ her boyfriend for about a year. Prior to that Bm lived with her retired mother and from the time that Ss was a baby (Dh and Bm split up when Ss was 3 mo's) her mother was the one who primarily took care of Ss. When they lived there Ss didn't talk about Bm and would often mention that she wasn't ever home and that he was always with his nana. When we'd ask him things he wouldn't even refer to his mom, he often say things like "I'll have to ask my nana" The nana took on the mother role in his life. When Bm moved in with the boyfriend Ss would make comments about how he missed living with at his nana's because his mom made him stay in room all the time and that no one would spend time with him. Those comments stopped though after he told us his mom told him that he could "borrow" her Xbox and they put that in his room. Last month we caught him pretending to be sick and making himself throw up and he said he likes to be sick because he mommy will spend time with him and cuddle him when he's sick. we've picked this kid up before and he says he's hungry because he's not allowed to eat breakfast because his mom has to sleep until evening time. I totally get what you're saying but Bm is a shitty mom and I'm not saying that because I Don't like her or anything but this a mother who would hotbox her car smoking cigarettes with her friends with Ss in the car. My stepson is a smart kid. not that other kids aren't but he's been talking since he was 2-like fully speaking fully clear sentences. He's one of those kids you see on "kids say the darnest thing" because of how well he speaks and how much of an open book he is. He's one of those kids that just says what's on his mind. There have been many times where he'll say "oh you know, msg1986 my mommy doesn't like you. It's okay though because I like you." or "My mommy hates my daddy, he's her arch enemy". Pssh, when he was 4 he was telling us how he wanted to be a scientist when he grows up so he can invent unmeltable chocolate so that the heat from your hand won't destroy the chocolate before you get to enjoy it. I could maybe understand but I don't know, you'd just to meet him and Bm to understand I guess. It's just sad that there is a change in him.

kathc's picture

OH hell yeah. That's PAS twirling a flaming baton while doing cartwheels. Get that child to a counselor and get that shit in writing. WTF.

msg1986's picture

being that court is in 30 days, would it look bad on Dh if he got Ss into counseling? Do you think he should consult Bm or just find somone that would see Ss on one of the weekends (Dh has every weekend) that we have him?