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Is it unreasonable of me

luchay's picture

to expect OH to discuss changes to the visitation schedule with ME before he agrees to them with BM?

This has been an ongoing issue with us for the nearly 2 years we have lived together - and I raised it (again) in counselling last night and the counsellor actually said "we have already agreed that we need to respect that when the other is not present the parent who is there will make the best decision in the circumstances" and we need to respect that decision and go along with it.

Well I am sorry but NO that is not what I agreed to in that discussion, what I agreed to was that when he has his kids and decides on a whim to treat them to maccas for lunch, or take them wherever or do whatever that I will respect that he is allowed to make those spur of the moment decisions just as I do with my kids. And we both agreed to respect that if one has to make a decision about whether one kid can do something the other parent will go along whether they would have decided that way or not (can still present why they would do it diff. but if not a huge issue then let it go basically)

The him just changing visitation, taking extra, changing dates, etc etc happens ALL the time. And he NEVER discusses it, BM just collars him and says "You need to have them blah as I am doing blah" then does the whole guilt trip of "you don't pay them enough attention now that you are with the whore" etc. And he caves and agrees to her changes.

Last week it was Weds night - she says to him "I have a date, you have to keep them til 10.30" (normal drop off is 8.30){she said more but that's funny and not relevant} And despite it being a school night, and me having two dd's 7 & 10 here that I need to get to bed he agreed, now his kids do NOT go to bed or to sleep easily, they have the lights on (they are scared at ss10 and sd13) but what they really do is play their ipods and ipads and watch dvd's all night. And talk and play and keep my kids up. So my policy is not on a school night. But no he agreed and that was that - I get told after the fact.

Then Saturday night, it's out skid free weekend but my dd's had dance comps. So I am there Saturday afternoon, could have been home by 5... But I get a text from OH saying BM has told him he has to go and get ss10 as he is misbehaving and she can't handle him, so we are having ss10 for the night and he'll take him to the game on Sunday. (OH had planned again without telling me to have ss10 for a while on Sunday to take him to a football game, should have been done by 1pm, home by 2.) Again, done deal, no discussion. This would have been our only night together for any sort of couple time in about a month....

So, it's done and I am not happy, I stayed at the comps and watched some of the other sections and got home about 9pm, what the heck, my night was ruined anyway. We talked about Sunday and I said dd10 was on earlyish and I could be home between 1-2, and that he had to drop ss10 off (half hour away) so I said text me when you are on your way home and we'll come home then. We stayed and watched and waited - and waited, and eventually came home at about half 4 without hearing from him. He got home just as I did (5ish) I asked where he had been all afternoon and "Oh SS and I just pottered about and had some fun"

So great, the little time we could have carved from all this fuckup he devoted to pottering around with SS...

Then Monday he texts me from work... BM had a screaming fight with him on Saturday about how little time he has for the kids now (see above for actual wording!) And as it's school holidays she needs him to take them for a week. No prior arrangement or discussion, just "you WILL do this!" He said no. He works 14 hour days, she sits on her fat arse and gets CS and SS. She screamed some more about what a lousy father he is these days (because of me) and he has now agreed to forego Weds night, and have them from Thursday night to Sunday night, he says it was the best he could do.

Can you see a problem here? He is still working Friday... I have a two hour job Friday then the girls and I were going to watch some more of the comps. They have friends competing that afternoon they really want to see.

He says "it's ok, just do what you planned with your kids and leave skids at home, they can sit and watch Foxtel all day!"

Hell.to.the.no.

Not F*cking happening.

Not a snowballs chance in hell is SD being left alone and unsupervised in my house. Little thief would have a field day.

And again - all arranged without so much as a word to me.

So. Am I unreasonable (especially in the last instance) to expect to be consulted? Or is it really ok for him to make these plans as "they are his responsibility and it's his house too!"

Comments

LuckyGirl's picture

Put it this way - would your DH be ok with you inviting a houseguest to stay for a few days without consulting him? After all, it's your house and you'd be taking care of your guest... And would he be ok with you repeatedly doing this?
To be honest I think it's a pretty cr!appy father that will happily leave 2 kids that age alone all day watching TV. They are too Young to be left unsupervised for a long period of time.
My SO would not dream of changing the skids' Schedule without asking me first, it's just a matter of courtesy to the other adult that lives in the house (and I love my SD's and get on well with them). Your DH needs to grow a pair and stand up to the BM's emotional blackmail.

luchay's picture

No, even if I trusted SD alone in my house I wouldn't be leaving them here alone all day, I will do my job in the morning (older dd21 will be home til 1pm) then I will have to take all 4 of them to the comps. I am not letting my dd's down, and this is the best I can do. SS10 will love it, and sd13 will probably throw in some of her own Pole dancing moves and twerking....

Fun fun.

I think I need to bring it up again next counselling as the counsellor didn't seem to see a problem with him not talking to me first. I was reluctant as I don't want to get into another sh*tfight about sd13 - his princess who does no wrong but steals and lies and manipulates - I was reluctant to say "I am not leaving that girl in my house alone!" and explain exactly why.

I think it's about pride and not giving BM any more ammo against him - he feels if he says he has to check with me first that will be a problem.... I can kind of see how he feels but I don't bloody well care LOL

If it was just occasionally then no probs we would deal with it, but as you can see - 3 examples in 5 days...

not2sureimsaneanymore's picture

I think you are misunderstanding--no one is saying that they shouldn't accept that possibility, but that it's common courtesy to talk with the other person about changes in plans that affect them. Houseguests aren't the same, obviously, but the point is that be it your children, your parents, your friends, or complete strangers, even if your spouse changed plans about themselves (Is it okay if I stay late at work on such and such date?) your spouse should respect you enough to consult you about changes in plans before changing them since it does affect you. I know it would change what I made for dinner, shuffle some chores around, which would change the entire week after.

Put it this way, would you invite your parents over without first asking your spouse if it was okay? Would you invite ANYONE over without first asking your spouse if it was okay? No? Then children shouldn't be any different especially when they don't live there full time. And even if they did and the bio changed the schedule of when they go visit the other parent, the spouse should be consulted too because that changes their schedule too. If you do change plans and invite people over without asking first, and your spouse is okay with it, great, but know that most would not be. I don't know about you, but in my house, each of our schedules affect the other's and is intricately meshed as a working family.

A marriage is a partnership, not a "the one with kids trump all and their spouse should just lay down and take whatever decision the bio makes." That makes for a miserable marriage.

Now, if your issue is that people are comparing houseguests to children, and implying that the children are houseguests, you need to realize that you have a longstanding problem of jumping the gun any time there is even a slight chance it could be taken that way. I think, for your mental and emotional health, you should seek counseling to deal with whatever is causing you to feel this way as I suspect there is some history about it.

MamaDuck's picture

As much as I adore my SD3 and would love to have her over absolutely whenever, it would seriously piss me off if BM was changing plans all the damn time!!

Is there a CO?? I reckon it's just best for everyone if the parents stick to the CO!! It's ok to help each other out EVERY NOW AND THEN when planned, and lets be honest, real 'emergency' situations are very few and far between, so there really shouldn't be SOOO many last minute changes!

BM is taking advantage of your DH. Your DH needs to put up boundaries, stick to the agreed times and only take the 'extra' time with plenty of notice and after he's discussed it with you (or 'let you know')

P.S That BM is eff'n lazy!

luchay's picture

THAT is exactly what I have been trying to make him see for the last almost 2 years!!

Not that I would have a problem with it everytime, but sometimes I need to be able to say no, that's not convenient - and really what mother keeps her kids out til 10.30 on a school night so she can go on a date?

(never ended up happening BTW - we think it was a ploy to try and upset OH - LMAO - the other wording in her text re that was along the lines of how she doesn't want to upset him, but she needs to move on with her life and start seeing other people etc - but then the night of she texted at about 8pm and said she was sick and to bring them home at the normal time... We were actually quite excited at the prospect of her seeing someone...)

Newstep's picture

No way I would be so mad!!! But SO will jump at the chance to have SD any extra time he can get. So he never consults me he just says yes!!! Lucky for me it doesn't happen often :). The one thing I did manage to halt early on was SD calling the shots. She used to call whenever she was "bored" at BM's and SO would high tail it over there to pick her up :O I hated it because it ruined our alone time finally stopped that when he stopped letting her run the show. Now I am pretty lucky because BM uses her as a babysitter for her BF 's kids so she never wants her to go anywhere }:) Works great for me!!

Newstep's picture

He tried went to court BM admitted everything. The mediator told SO that was perfectly fine lots of kids babysit siblings. Our local court is a joke.

Bojangles's picture

I can see why DH doesn't want to look like he has to check with his boss before he can give an answer every time he has the opportunity to have more time with his children. If the situation were reversed would you feel happy having to ask DH first before telling your ex the children could stay, and saying no I won't have them if your DH refused? How much time are your children in residence with you and DH vs how much time his children spend with you? Because if your children are there 5,6,7 days a week and his only 2 or 3 days a week there would be an argument for saying there is a bit of a double standard going on - it certainly sounds that way when you talk about having a policy that his children cannot stay over on a school night (although it is absolutely dads responsibility to remove electronics and enforce bedtimes). You were annoyed at the lost Sunday afternoon after the dance show, but would you and he actually have had quality time alone? It sounds like you spent the morning with your DD doing what she wanted and he spent the afternoon with his son doing what he wanted.

I wonder if DH is not consulting you because he feels you will say no or make him feel bad about it, so he'd rather have the kids and get into trouble for it later, whereas if he felt that sometimes you would say 'ok thats fine honey' but sometimes say 'i think thats going to be a problem this time because...' he might be more considerate in return. I know avoidance is my husbands favourite strategy.

Having said all this I do understand the frustration in having plans changed at the drop of a hat on a frequent basis. Although I think some flexibility and extra time is good for Dad and children it can be unsettling for all concerned if you can never plan your week or your holiday without changes happening. I would also find it difficult if I was NEVER consulted, because while we have to be considerate of our partners need to spend time with his children he should also be considerate of our right to be kept informed and have a fair input into the schedule in our home.

just.his.wife's picture

My DH did this once. Give this example to your DH as a reason WHY you need to be consulted prior.

He agreed to a schedule change with BM without consulting me. Did not even tell me about it.

I get home from work on a Friday, change into something skimpy since it was our 'no kid' weekend. And by skimpy I do mean postage stamps have more square footage. Thick comforter layed out in the middle of the living room floor. Candles lit through the living room. Wine is poured.

Porn is playing on the TV.

And DH walked in with four kids.

luchay's picture

OMG - that is so funny!

What did they do?

He has messed up surprise plans I have made before - not of that ^ nature lol.

And now when I am planning anything cheeky like just.his.wife I do tell him over and over do NOT bring your kids home tonight it will not go well....

just.his.wife's picture

Oh yeah. Had my DH called me and said "BM asked if I could take the kids this weekend... do we have any plans I have forgotten about that makes this impossible" I would have told him, No, its fine. And I would not have been wearing a thong and not much else when they got to the house.

Porn would not have been playing on the TV... dinner would have been made and DH might still have gotten laid that night.

I can assure you.... he only got hallway sex that night. Which consisted of me walking by him, saying "Fuck you" and continuing on to go get dressed.

luchay's picture

that's exactly it, if he could just ask me first - even sometimes.

As I said earlier - the three examples I have given are from the last - well week now. That's 3 changes in 7 days. And NONE of them involved checking with me to see if there was going to be any problem or conflict.

The school night change?

NO, it's not fair to ANY of the kids - his or mine. Just so fatso can go on a date? His kids DO NOT go to sleep, they mess about they annoy mine and that makes for 4 hard to deal with cranky kids the next day - and yes I would have had to deal with my two, but my two are MY responsibility and I like them to have a good nights sleep, I don't agree with allowing them to sit up late every night playing electronics and with each other and expect them to do well at school the next day. So I don't think it is unreasonable of me to say no to the skids being here late on school nights. If OH and BM can't be responsible parents me and mine aren't going to suffer for it.

The having SS10 because he was naughty for BM?

I really don't think coming to our house should be used as a punishment. I don't want either of the skids seeing our house that way and I would have thought he wouldn't want it either.

The Sunday thing?

Those were going to be the only few hours we could carve out to spend together for quite a while due to when his kids ARE here they take all his time and attention. If I am lucky I get a quickie at about 2am. I want to spend some time with him just grabbing a coffee or taking a walk. My girls would have been with their older sister and he AGREED with me to call me when he was on his way so that we could schedule this then decided to just play about with ss for the extra 3 hours instead.

And This weekend?

Scheduling to have them for an extra day when he's not even here? Surely no-one in their right mind is ok with that? Just leave them in front of the TV and take mine out? NO. And because sd is a known thief who never has any consequences even when she is caught I will not leave her in my home alone. Eeeeeuuuuwwww I just know she would take the opportunity to go through OUR room - usually OH is here when she is so she only goes through my kids rooms - all three of them - she has stolen from and goes into their rooms and just sticky beaks ALL the time. We have even set a trap to prove it and still he does nothing.

twoviewpoints's picture

If Dad is working 14hrs a day, it makes a huge difference whether he should be automatically agreeing. Obviously if Dad is working those hours it's not Dad who perhaps has to watch over the skids. IMO any time that it is going to be the OP having to do 'the babysitting' , yes, she should be consulted. Having a wife/SO/GF does not mean one gets a on-call 24/7 free babysitter when an ex dumps the kids and DH's a chicken sh*t to say 'sorry, this isn't going to work out for my schedule'.

Also IMO a BM should not e scheduling a date pass 8:30pm on the Wednesday if exchange is 8:30. If she called 'me' and asked can they stay later, I might say yes but it should not be expected and/or demanded. OP's SO has no backbone. Not only with his ex but with his children. Ok, so kids stay, but why the h*ll are they disrupting the household? They can't be playing ipod.ipad and watching movies if Daddy snags items away. If child was to be at my home after 10pm they would be staying until 6:30am the next morning and their pjs would be on at regular bedtime and snoring going on by 10pm.

Last minute changes to the point this BM is making them isn't the type of routine needed changes one thinks of when households occasionally agree to do some extra time or make a few switches. This BM is going above and beyond what should be acceptable. With that said, OP's SO having to say 'wait, BM I have to ask OP first' leaves OP wide open for BM crazy coming right down on OP. That's not right either. IMO Dad as to find the balance somewhere that allows him to have some last minute changes (with Dad doing the child care and implementing household rules and expectations on his kids) or flat out telling BM 'no'. What he should not be doing is speaking for or agreeing for OP if she is the one with the bulk of the 'change' affected.

As far as the weekend skid free couple time, that's really a couple issue and not on the BM or the Skids. If SO is giving up couple time to spend more time with his kids, OP needs to discuss this topic with her SO. Why is SO avoiding couple time or is it just that SO doesn't think of how important it is to a couple to have adult time? Along with that I think SO needs to look at why his ex is calling him to take the 10yr old just because BM can't deal with kid. Why does BM have custody if she can't parent her child on her own by herself when a 10yr acts up? I have to question why it's allowed to relieve BM her parenting duty on nights where her kid won't behave for her. Dad needs to really look at this one. BM can either parent the kid or she can't and if she can't perhaps BM shouldn't have primary.

steppingsideways's picture

Nope, no additional time with the skids unless I am consulted first. Period.

My DH would NEVER allow BM to call me a "whore" and if she did, he certainly would not do any babysitting favors for her. (and he would cease all phone correspondece. She would have to email for any request or information she would like to share related to the skids).

You need to pitch a fit about this and your DH needs to decide if he wants a happy wife or a happy ex-wife.

This would be a deal breaker for me. Not only is your DH allowing BM to disrespect you, he, himself is also disrespecting you by not treating you as a partner with regard to his children.

luchay's picture

OH tends to take the IGNORE route when she is texting irrelevant or crazy crap - engaging just makes her step it up.

When she does it in person (usually pick-up or drop-offs - great example for the kids there) he just tries to keep himself civil and ignore.

I would LIKE him to say "BM that is not ok and we will continue the discussion about the kids when you can be civil" and leave.

I would LIKE him not to cave every time she asks. I would like him to consider the rest of the household before just agreeing to her changes. There are some that are just fine, no probs. The three I have mentioned - as I said all came in the SAME 7 day period, and I am not really ok with any of them.

They have no formal CO. They decided on every Weds evening from when school finishes to 8.30 and EOWE from school finishing Friday to Sunday evening.

OH starts work at 5am, which means he leaves the house at 4.30... and the skids live half an hour in the other direction so to drop them in the morning would mean leaving the house at 3.30... Not going to work. Before she moved (in July) she lived about 10 minutes from his work, and that is what they used to do.... regularly - on the Weds or the Sunday/Monday morning - she would say he needed to have them overnight and he would and just get them up and take them on his way to work. Not great for them!

OH and BM are very permissive parents, and he is very laid back - it's not that he is avoiding spending time with me as such - he just doesn't think about it in the moment, on Sunday he went "well, ss and I have had a lovely morning at the footy, ss doesn't want to go home yet, it's a lovely day, lets kick the ball about. And then ss says dad can we go to the skate park too, and he thinks "why not?" And he doesn't think it through - he thinks well I told Luchay I would call her when I was on my way home and never gave a time so what's the harm. Not - well it's back to work tomorrow, then skids all next weekend, and so it will be another 2 weeks before we get some quality time together. (Last weekend was skids obviously, so no joy there)

I like the suggestion above - where he can say yes sometimes without asking (I am fine with SOMETIMES) but not EVERY time. Sometimes he has to think about the other people in the house and it's NOT ok.

We did talk in counselling on Tuesday night about the making couple time a priority and we have agreed that one night a week - not a set night - just one night and one of us has to take charge - i.e. next week he has to pick a night, arrange something to do etc, and the following week it's my turn.

Yes my girls are here full time they spend 9 days every 3 months at their fathers, and 3 weeks there in summer. The difference is my kids GO TO BED at a reasonable time and we don't have to keep checking on them, they entertain themselves quite happily so they aren't hanging of me the entire time like the skids are with OH, and I am happy to get a babysitter regularly and go out.