Furious and in a Loop. Realizing it's all about the money
A few nights ago, my DH and I spent our date night visiting his friend from church. We went there and I enjoyed myself, sort of. Don't get me wrong. These are nice people, a nice family. His friend is nice to me, too. But these are people my DH has known for 15 years. I ended up feeling like a sidekick as usual in my DH's life.
This is a recurring theme in my depression. But I know some things logically I have discovered through writing and reflection. I am not trapped. I can leave. I have family who would help me and the kids. But I choose not to. I am choosing this kind of suffering over a different kind of suffering that leaving would inevitably bring. My son really loves his father and wants to stay in his home he has grown up in. I know it isn't up to my son, but I can't help but take his feelings into account.
I otherwise have a good relationship with my DH. We get along well. He is a good husband and father. But none of that changes the fact that he cares more about maintaining the status quo of his life than he does about building a new life with me. I think what it all really boils down to is money. I'll expand on that below. I should say we have a good relationship until he says something totally awful in a most polite and reserved tone of voice...which to me is so creepy.
I lost my temper the other night on the drive home from visiting his friends. I yelled at DH. We left the visit with his friends and he was so happy, gleeful almost. He noticed I was quiet and asked me if I was happy. I told him, "I want my own friends." His reply was that "you just can never be happy. You don't know how to be happy." I told him I'm happy most of the day with our kids until I get overtired or too hungry. But I fix that with a catnap or a sandwich. The fight escalated. I mean, what the hell is it with telling me, "Oh, you just don't know how to be happy. You'll always be miserable."
I yelled and cussed much of the drive home that his desire for maintaining the status quo, his life in his small town that he has had for the last two decades, is not what makes me angry. What makes me angry is that he pretends that he "has to" keep his life in line with the status quo. He offers up excuses. His excuses are: my rental property is here. My business is here. The house I built is here. To me, it's all nonsense. If he cared enough about giving me a fresh start where I could build a life WITH him instead of being squeezed into his already existing life, he would make it happen. He rebutted my argument with, "You can live whereever you choose. I'll visit you as often as I can." I screamed at him, "Don't you realize how effed up that is? That you would rather move me to a separate house with our children, and see us only on the weekends, just so you can keep your business, your house, your friends, your life?" I don't think no matter how many times DH tells me he's in love with me and wants things to work out, that he even has the slightest clue how manipulative and wicked he is. It's normal for him to his brain to assume everything from his point of view is the truth.
The next day we argued more. He pulled out his phone and tapped on it a few times. I realized after a moment that he was recording our argument. I asked him to stop. He refused. I tried to pull the phone out of his pocket to get him to stop recording. I ended up with some nasty bruises on my arm from him trying to stop me from getting his phone. He left. Then he returned later. While he was away, I checked his email and noticed that he had emailed the recording of our argument to his father. "Don't listen. Argument. I thought somebody should have a record of this." That's what the headline of the email said.
Wow. How can I possibly trust this person anymore? I told him he crossed a line. He said, "you knew I was recording." I said that I didn't. He said that I figured out he was and I could have stopped the argument. I said, well, you continued recording me. I don't want to be recorded in my own home all day and not know when it ends. I think it is absolute crap that he recorded our fight and sent it to his dad. He even said, "stop! stop! you're attacking me!" while it was recording. I felt like he was acting for the recording. I was never attacking him. I was simply trying to get the phone and stop him from recording me.
Meanwhile, that night, I enrolled in virtual therapy with a therapist to combat my feelings of being lost in my DH's life. I don't want to be the type of person who loses their temper. But I think my feelings are telling me something important. I spent almost the whole weekend in tears. DH didn't. He just went about life as usual.
I have my first therapy session today. Just this morning, after I mentioned how well my new overnight job of 10-hour shift 4 nights a week is going, my DH said to me, "When are you going to start financially contributing to the house? At what amount of money you earn per year are you going to put into the community pot? $50,000 $100,000?"
I was bothered by this comment. "When are you going to *start contributing*?" Start? Have I not already contributed financially? So I'm supposed to care for our children, continue to work nights, and then when I finally have money hand over that money to him so that he can "invest" it in rental property or his business? I started pointing out all the things I have purchased in our home that make it a home. Mirrors, chairs, furniture, etc.
He said that of course I contribute to our home, but that I do not bring money into the home. Whatever purchases I have made that contribute to the home and life of the children are from money that he has *given* me. I contribute in many ways, but I do not contribute money. This is true that the money has been given to me by him, but is that not a contribution enough? I want to take the money I earn from my night job and spend it on finishing our STILL unfinished home. Our house is like a garage sale in an art museum. It's this beautiful sort of new home with hand me downs everywhere you turn. We don't have rugs or decorative pillows. We have hand me down couches from a friend. It is far from aesthetically pleasing. We don't have end tables or a dining room table. We have a literal wooden board that's been sealed for our countertop. Some spare board my DH found and sealed. This home ...It's been unfinished for 8 years, before I even got with him. I want my kids to have a nice room with their names on the wall. When I take them to the zoo, I want to be able to buy them a cookie without worrying about how I'm going to pay for it. I want them to have new clothes, not hand me downs. By the way, our dresser, our bed, our end tables, our lamps, my kids beds, my kids toys, their books, their clothing...all purchased by me with money given to me by DH.
I guess I just have a real serious problem with this: as soon as I begin to form an identity outside of my identity as DH's arm candy second younger wife, he tries to undermine me or take from me. He reminded me that my night job interrupted his work day because while he was doing desk work, he stopped paying bills and took over watching the kids so I could take a nap. He said that because my need for a nap interrupted his work day, the assumption should be that he gets some of the money I earn from outside the home. My job is taking away from his ability to work. That's his argument. I got angry again at hime. I said, I literally found the perfect job that allows me to work and care for our children. I needed a nap. I took an hour out of your time so I could nap. I said, that does not amount to my job taking away from your job. That's simply your responsiblity as a father.
Even in the evenings, I am still expected to be "on duty" with our children until they are asleep. When I'm not on duty until bedtime, I'm expected to be grateful to DH for giving me a break. I just want to hiss at him, "They are your children!"
I usually have dinner ready by 5:30. Then I stay with the children until the last hour before bedtime at 7 or 7:30PM.
Also... I thought I earned that money? To my DH, he has kindly *given* me the money. (As an aside, this money was kindly given to me after I got sick and tired of having to ask DH for money for every purchase I made. Any time I wanted anything for myself or the kids, I had to ask. I had to look at DH's face, all disappointed at the need for more money, and ask. I had to listen about how Listen, I do not get my hair done, nails done. I don't wear hardly any makeup. I wear secondhand clothing. But why should I have to ask? Certain things, like kids, simply cost money. If I want to buy my daughter a dress, I shouldn't have to stand there in the store and call and ask if it is ok to put it on my credit card. I'm no financial expert, but I am not hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, either.
If I were dead and gone, and he were to put our kids in daycare FT, it would cost him about $800 a month. He gives me $1000 a month. I spend it on groceries, clothing, education for the kids, zoo membership, fuel, etc. So he is giving me an extra $200 more than he would have to pay for daycare full time. That $200 would be eaten up by two grocery trips. So how am I not contributing? Isn't the only saying, "a penny saved is a penny earned?" I argued that his idea of the community pot is actually really his newest financial venture. I also told him I feel he is being manipulative by claiming this is the community pot, when it is really him wanting me to give him money so he can do with it as he pleases. Whether that money is invested or not, it is him taking control of the money. He said I was the grasshopper and he was the ant.
I took a look at all of his mortgage debt. It amounts to over $300,000. This does not include vehicles or equipment. He says it will pay off in 15 years. But what about us now? Shouldn't my money that I earn through sacrifice be spent on our lives now? Shouldn't I be respected for contributing to our kids' lives just as much as him? Our current quality of life? Not some dream of 15 years from now when our kids are nearly grown. My current debt, by the way, is $20,000. That includes my education debt and credit card debt. The majority is education debt. So my $20,000 to his $300,000 is quite different. The debt I have brought on this family is 6% of his debt. Why would I offer to give him money that I have made to help pay down properties that I would not get half of if we divorced? Most of his properties were prior to our marriage. We have been married one year, and together for 7. I only get half of the value of the properties he completed, built, or purchased during our marriage. How could I possibly know which property's debt he is applying the money I give him to? I can't know. And why should I trust someone who records my conversations or arguments and then sends them to family?
He always threatens to kick me out of his house. He did today. I'm not leaving this house until my youngest is ready to go to kindergarten. That's 3 years from now. I am also not leaving until I am financially prepared and working enough hours to earn enough money to provide for my kids. I need about $3,000 a month where we live to be comfortable and happy. Not well off, but happy. I would be perfectly content moving out and moving on if I could simply continue to have the $1000 + half the health care costs ($500) a month paid. I could make the other $2000 a month in virtually any job. Do I feel like I deserve more? Probably. Am I going to make a big deal of it? No.
I feel like if during a divorce, I tried to take more money from him, he would pull out the recordings, (who knows how many there are), say I was crazy and emotionally unstable and try to take my kids from me. He says to me often, "If you are reasonable, then I will be reasonable." Well what that really means is, "if you agree to my terms, then I won't make you pay dearly."
He is the one who is in over his head financially. And he would be in over his head whether he had us as a second family or not. He refuses to get a job working for someone else. He wants to work for himself. So with that comes a lot of freedom, and a lot of financial risk and debt. He always blames me for why our house isn't finished. He says our house isn't finished because I want attention from him to be paid to the kids or myself. He says if I wasn't so needy, he would have time to finish the house. Yeah, right! I say, why don't you pay somebody to do what you won't? Why not pay someone to finish our home, so that we can have company over and them be comfortable. He says that if I want him to pay someone to finish our house, then I need to sacrifice the breaks I get from caring for our kids. I need to be OK with him working until 8 or 9 o clock at night. Because being a business owner means working more, so he says.
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Marriage counseling
If ever a couple needed to both get on the same page, it's you guys. I'm glad you're going to individual therapy but in a perfect world, you'd both be going to marriage counseling.
Individual counseling changed my life for the better and I wish that for you, too. Good luck.
:)
Your first sentence made me laugh, a relieved laugh. Thank you.
DH is willing to do marriage counseling.
He's an a-hole and abusing
He's an a-hole and abusing you. Mental cruelty at it finest. Get yourself to a lawyer, come up with long range plan to leave him. In fact , talk to all the local lawyers with a free consultation and take them off the table for him. Don't give him any money. What a mess.
That recording and email were
That recording and email were a set up designed to give him leverage in a divorce/custody battle.
Please be very careful. Talk to a few divorce attorneys to find out where you stand. I'm worried for you.
Agree
Agree 100% with ExJMC about this. Your husband is definitely setting you up. In addition to seaking legal advice, you need to stop fighting with him even if he is pushing all your buttons. Just stop. He's manipulating you and if you aren't careful you could end up with some pretty horrible consequences. Think about the outcome you want and put all of your efforts into achieving that goal. Personally, I'd recommend that you focus on an exit plan and as well as speaking to lawyers you should talk to someone who specilises in domestic abuse.
I agree this is disturbing
I agree this is disturbing and would be a dealbreaker for me. How can you possibly feel comfortable in your own home, if you have no safe space.
Your husband is a combination
Your husband is a combination of my first and second husband. I don't know how you stay.
My first husband controlled me financially. He would humiliate me in front of others and throw it in my face that I only had a high school diploma. I stayed home with our 3 kids and he was the breadwinner (and smart with money). When I started to work, he was just like your husband and wanted it ALL to go into the family account. Um, NO. We were married 26 years before I divorced him. However, I managed to earn a bachelor's degree and land a great job before that.
My second husband was more abusive - mentally, financially, sexually and emotionally. There were hints that the physical part wasn't far away. He used me financially.
You and your son are BETTER OFF if you walk away and go for child support. I don't think the recordings will matter at all - talk to a lawyer about that.
This guy has all kinds of control over you. If you're on the same phone plan, he can likely see your texts and phone call logs. Get Google Voice account. It's a separate phone number that uses your current phone and he shouldn't be able to see your call logs.
Then start preparing for your escape. Don't tell him anything. Save money from your job to get out. Take copies of all the documents you can find. Make sure you have your passport and birth certificate, too.
You need to move
To a new town. New house. Where you can start your life over. Make new friends, new neighbors,,new church ,,new schools. Then you stand a chance. Yes this way you are the other woman
financial control is just
financial control is just that ..control.
Your current husband is my
Your current husband is my sister's ex husband. Financial abuse was his main tactic but overall control the second. He had hidden cameras around the house to watch her. She had to do all housework and childcare. She had a job but he either wouldn't let her learn more skills or get a better job. He took all her paychecks and didn't let her have access to the bank accounts. She had to ask permission to go to get groceries or any shopping trips and provide the receipt when she got back. He did hit her a couple times.
It was no way to live.
She got out and is so so much happier. She controls her own life. Her daughter has a good life now. You should think about who controls you, you obviously want your independence and your husband will not give it to you.
The recording and then emailing
He set you up. He sounds very cold-hearted and manipultive. He talks a good line when he needs to keep you in line, but hes not willing to build anything with you. It ALL sounds like a setup to get rid of you. As long as you are a good "wife appliance" hes happy. And then when you are brow beaten into sunmission so that you give him your paycheck to support his investments that you would not be able to take if you left, you will be stuck.
Get thee to a lawyer!
He sounds like a manipulative creep.
He sounds like he's unwilling
He sounds like he's unwilling to make any changes for you. He's got his life in his town and doesn't want to give it up. It sounds like your choices are either to leave and have a decrease in lifestyle (which is what i did and was so much happier btw) or stay and play the long game (act sweet, sock away money, or see if he will put some of the properties in your name - it's only fair if you are paying in. That's what my SO's brother's wife is doing.) Whatever you do, it's obvious he will try to bait you into getting emotional, record you, then use it to paint you as crazy. Don't take the bait.
Be very careful. He's clearly
Be very careful. He's clearly setting you up. If I had to guess, I'd say he's wanting to move on (or thinks you do) and wants ammunition to get what he wants in the divorce. I'd go talk to a lawyer to figure out what your rights are, get your ducks in a row to leave and not give him a cent of your paycheck.
I'm glad you have sought out
I'm glad you have sought out therapy... you definitely have a lot of things that you could use some help working through..
It is not totally unusual for the person who is bringing in the money into the home ends up with more of an upper hand and feels the pressure to "perform" so that the bills are paid.. and I can see him having some expectation that you would both now do some contributions to the monthly budget.. but of course.. there needs to be an equitable distribution of work at home.. with the kids.. so that you are both contributing there too. It should not be "all your job".. if you are now working a full time job..
But.. you are both doing a poor job of communicating your POV's.. you are cursing and yelling.. and it has gotten to the point where he is apparently recording your rants so that he has protection in the event you either end up in divorce court.. or possibly if he feels you are going to accuse him of abuse.. (and.. it sounds like the bruises came in the process of you physically trying to get at his phone.. which puts you in a bad position.. you do need to figure out how to deal with conflict without going off the rails with him.. it isn't good for your relationship.. and won't play well in court either).
I am curious.. did he promise when you got together that you would move away? Because.. to be honest.. I think that's a very unrealistic expectation for you to have of him. People have lives.. friends.. family.. a life in a place.. and there is zero.. and I mean zero guarantee that you would have a better life with him elsewhere. There is a saying.."where ever you go.. there you are".. because for almost everyone.. the problems that they have??? they are self inflicted.. so you and he will be in a new place.. with the same old problems.. except added problems because you both have to navigate a lot of new and stressful situations.
I can sympathize thought.. my DH grew up in a small community.. and he has friends in the community from birth... me? I was an army brat.. lived in over a dozen places.. no long term friends.. and yeah.. when he gets together with people he knows... esp when we were first together.. there was no shared history for me.. they go down memory lane... for me? I had no part in it.. they sometimes talk about people and times I have no connection to. Of course.. over the years we have been together.. I have gotten to know his friends.. and there is NEW history.. new experiences with them right.. it just doesn't happen overnight. And the town we live in is VERRY small.. there is not much to do.. we moved back to be closer to his parents.. who are starting to need help.. so it can be a bit isolating.. but my husband and I are partners.. and we enjoy spending time together.. and that makes it work. So... yeah.. I get feeling like an outsider (in a town where you are a "come here".. if you didn't grow up.. there). But.. you will both be outsiders if you move elsewhere.. and you will likely find it won't help your true relationship problems... all it will do is put you both in a financial hole.. making your lives even more stressful.
So.. please seek therapy.. get your DH to go to group therapy too.. perhaps with a less volatile communication style.. he might start hearing you.. and be better at making you feel included in his life.
I agree that it is an
I agree that it is an unreasonable expectation for him to move away from everyone and everything. But I was never asking for very far away. Maybe just out of town. I also agree that we both need to get into therapy. I have been working on my anger issues for a very long time. My anger issues came into being after I had my first child and I was alone to take care of him. The wonderful and present extended family I thought DH had never showed up to help. And by "help" I don't mean take the baby so I could get my nails done. I mean, just be there in conversation. I feel like everything I was sold about who DH was and how life would be with him was some kind of lie. Financially, it has been a real struggle. Socially, it has been suffocating. I have tried to fit in with his life for the last 7 years. I'm tired of trying to fit in. I honestly regret my decision to marry him or be with him in the first place. I could have done a lot better. And by better I mean someone who truly loved all of me and not just me as arm candy. My DH liked all the shiny things about me, but as far as appreciating me as an entire human being with emotions, he can't handle it.
I don't want to feel included in his life anymore. I want
I don't think it's all about
I don't think it's all about money.. but you are both focusing on that.. you as well as him. Instead of assuming some theoretical "childcare cost" of 1,000.. you would need to look at what the Child Support Calculator would say given your salary.. and your DH's Salary.. it may be more or less than 1,000.. Remember.. the calculator will have a basic assumption that you are both financially supporting the kids.. so the cost of support is split between you.. often factoring in income and other minor children in each home... etc..
So.. let's say the state says 2 kids would require total of 1200 support.. the neutral starting point would be each of you contributing 600.. .. so his share might be 800.. and your share (which you don't pay him since you have them full time) is 400.. these numbers are completely made up.. you need to look at your own particular guidance and facts. Some people only get a couple hundred a month.. some people a couple thousand.. I have seen the range on here.. and you can't assume you would get anything specific without running your own scenario.
You have many times mentioned you want to move.. how possible would that be in a case of divorce where he might be entitled to generous custody? He might find that he seeks more 50/50 custody where no one pays much of any child support.. so he isn't obligated to pay you anything. Right now.. no chips have been shown.. so you don't know what he might do when push comes to shove.
And.. now you know that he has recorded you.. and you need to figure out how to get control of yourself and you cannot have outbursts... you can have disagreements.. but they need to be civil..anything you do negative.. could harm a custody case.. shoot.. he could end up with full custody and they could order you to pay CS. Stop putting bullets in HIS gun.
What you might be better off doing is seeeing what could make your relationship work if that is your goal.. he mentioned you could stay longer in a prior post.. but will he really be up for that if he thinks you are truly done? i'm not so sure about that.
If you stay in the area. I don't see how a lot of your complaints are going to be worse as now you would be part of his next divorce story.. and you can't just hide away with your kids..can you? no. So.. you need to do some deep thinking and research before you make moves that could harm your future.
I only had to read the first paragraph
I only had to read the first paragraph or so to see a few glaring red flags in this relationship.You need to leave this man.
1. Don't cuss or scream at your spouse, and he shouldn't cuss or scream at you.
2. Your spouse should never lay hands on you or leave bruises - this is abuse.
3. You are too close to the situation to see it clearly. You are lost in the drama. He is choosing everything and everyone before you. Why are you putting up with this?
4. He is manipulating you and there are lots of creepy signs that he has does not have your best interests at heart. Leave him now.
RE the bruises.. I think OP
RE the bruises.. I think OP went at her DH to grab his phone from him and in the process of trying to wrestle it from him.. she was bruised as he fended her off... I don't think that is quite the same as him abusing her.. that he was defending himself more so.
And.. I don't think it's manipulation for him to tell her that relocating is not really an option since this is where his business interests are.. I mean.. unless he married her with the clear intent of moving elsewhere and that was agreed... why should he entertain this demand because she is insecure and is making herself unhappy? She gets angry when he is happy after an apparent pleasant evening with his friends.. and people that by her own admission are being nice to her? So angry and screaming to the point where she physically accosts him to get at his phone..
Not saying that this guy is perfect or does everything perfectly.. but based on her reaction.. it seems he may be right in her assessment that she isn't happy.. and maybe never will be in this relationship?
I mean.. imagine you go to a friend's home.. have a lovely evening... you and everyone seem to get along well and have a great time. But on the way home.. you are ambushed by complaints that it was all horrible.. and that your partner was just acting.. and we need to have a fresh start.. where no one knows us.. and then the escalation.. the cursing and you are stunned since you were happy because it seemed like your partner was having a good time and now it's all exploding.. so you start recording.. because.. dang.. your partner is acting crazy.. and you don't want to get blamed for hurting her.. and have people think you caused them harm.
I can sympathize with the difficulties of being in a small town where everyone knew your partner from birth.. shoot.. my DH went to the same dentist.. who's dauther was his first wife.. and she was still working there as a hygenist and doing his cleanings! and the 2nd wife lived there some too... and everyone knew both of them.. and the skids.. and yeah... the area is small.. everyone knows everthing about everyone.. and I was not from there.. so yeah.. as the third wife.. I hear stories occasionally... of things before we met.. I would have to be incredibly insecure to let that stuff bother me though.. I mean.. we all had lives before right? I didn't demand we relocate where nobody knew us.. that just seems over the top unrealistic. especially if someone has real roots and financial ties to an area.. it's not always easy to just pick up and move.. even if you want to.. it's not always possible
I read your previous post...
I read your previous post...
Women can be abusive too....he recorded you to protect himself, it seems like these outbursts aren't uncommon. He is likely protecting his assets from him younger wife, whom only decides to cut loose after waiting 6 years till he married you? Your reaction after a nice night out with friends is outright abusive and frightening, I would have recorded you too!
You are now 'sick of' his life/town/business/home? You may not get a judge to agree with you to leave town and him loose custody time with his kids. You seem very young, entitled, selfish and unstable frankly, and YES if you are working you should be contributing financially to the house as well, has he been supporting you all these years, including when you were dating? Have you ever worked in the relationship?
No matter your contributions, it gets really old when a partner is financially living off you for many years- even if you had kids, etc...once they finally DO get a job, it's not unethical or financial abuse for them to expect you contribute as well, or shoudl she keep it all because she's a woman? I don't think you have to give him everything, you shoudl have your own money for sure, but there is no reason you can't contribute towards your life now either.
Yuck, this whole things gives me the creeps, and not in favor of the OP at all. Maybe he can't afford to provide better things financially because of the debt, and supporting two more children (and an adult) on one salary alone...with a spouse that obviously resents everythign about you, perhaps came into the marriage thinking it was much better then she thought, and is finding now that goldent ticket was an average middle-class/debt-ridden/average man with a past from a small crappy town and wants out.
He knows it, he's recording to prepare himself to the divorce filing....so I think it's pretty nasty that people are recommending you hit up the entire town attorney's so they can't represent him...I really hate this behavior, both partners deserve proper representation, and in very rare exceptions, divorce is the fault of both parties. It sounds like he may be stingy, and as an older guy, not as involved w/the hands on raising of two very young kids...not sure what she expected, that is the norm when young girls marry older guys with perceived $. They are the ones that take on more of the active physical role /the kids....and quite possible the guy never wanted more kids in the first place, but to keep the new young wife happy.
These kind of relationships have always been odd to me, and somewhat disturbing, there is a super odd power imbalance element that BOTH genders use-the guy uses his $ and power, the woman uses her looks, youth- they often both manipulate and use/exploit eachother and there is often an invisible agreement to this. I put my weight on men choosing young 2nd wives in target first for sure, but in this particular case, I think the OP is being very unfair and her behavior is crossing the line into abuse when she doesn't get her way/what she thought she would have.