What is Single most profound thing

You have learned as a stepparent?

I was sitting in the Dr.'s office this morning and she had a poster on her waiting room wall about Things People Have Learned in Life from 5-85 (my personal favourite was from a 7 year old who learned from life that "Goldfish do NOT like Jello!") It got me to thinking about the single most profound thing I have learned about my decision to take on, full time, when he was 14-SS Zippy 16.5.

I might as well have had any teen off the street for all I knew and next thing you know he is mine lock, stock and barrel until after college! :O (if he makes it that far!).

I think I learned how hard it is to have to finish raising someone else's child, when you do not even have the biological love connection to help you through the rough spots and whose parents vision (or in Zippy's case- non-vision) has left both Zippy and I struggling to make it through. I do have some hope!

What do you think was/is the single most profound thing you have picked up from Stepparenting?

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Let it out girl!

"And this too shall pass..."

how hard it is

to accept that the person you love the most had a child (and loves that child) that was conceived with another human.

~You can see clearly only with your heart. What is truly important is invisible to the eyes~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry's

Would it be harder if he

Would it be harder if he didn't love the child, or easier?

"Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There's too much fraternizing with the enemy"

I wouldn't

be with him if he "didn't love his child"...

But it is definitely hard to REALLY accept the fact that although the child is a complete different individual from mom and dad, the child is still 50% dad, 50% mom...

~You can see clearly only with your heart. What is truly important is invisible to the eyes~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry's

I agree. I think the only

I agree. I think the only thing that comforts me in this situation touches on those feelings. Part of me is relieved that my DH doesn't have a bio child with BM, but at the same time its this very fact that pisses me off.

"Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There's too much fraternizing with the enemy"

I agree with this lesson

Even after almost 4 yrs in this relationship and 1 yr of marriage...it's still hard for me.

That I no longer support

That I no longer support people with children getting a divorce...EVER!! They shouldn't be allowed, because then new spouses are forced to deal with their old one! haha just kidding. My friend with 2 kids just split from her husband though (her decision and he is torn up over it) and I did feel complelled to warn her to think about the whole picture, including the future, before throwing in the towel (he wants to go to counseling, she is against it) I told her about this site and all the things she will have to deal with in the future with a new SM and blending families etc. She said she could not even fathom another woman having a relationship with her children and not seeing them everyday is making her sick. Typical BM statement. She supposedly is going to try counseling now.

"Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There's too much fraternizing with the enemy"

Actually, that's one of the things that tied for "single most.."

That's one of the things that tied for single most profound thing: That people who are contemplating divorce really ought to think about the whole picture, including the future. Unfortunately, there probably aren't that many sources out there for someone who's at that stage to help them to think through the long-term picture. I think that people who are separating/separated need to read a book that explains to them what will probably happen next. A REALISTIC book that goes through what happens when the two of them start to date again, what happens when one GF or BF eventually becomes a serious relationship, what happens when one of the exes gets remarried, etc.

In fact, I'm thinking about writing a book about it...

BB++++++++

- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)

THAT'S WHAT

I've been trying to say! If you have young kids and want a divorce-------------------try to work it out if at all possible. It is an extremely SELFLESS task and most people won't do it because it is unfair to "them". I say once you have children----your time is up (until they are grown). You now have to let your kids have the marbles.

Yes, that is theeeeeeee most important thing that I have lived, learned and confirmed!

I have mixed feelings about divorce

I do agree that is selfish to separate, especially when the children are so young.

But if a spouse is abusive, verbally and mentally and physically, I say divorce would be best. Do you honestly want your children growing up and watching their father/mother verbally and mentally and physically abuse you?

I say if the marriage is going to poison the children, then by all means divorce.

I was writing about this as

I was writing about this as you posted

"Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There's too much fraternizing with the enemy"

Let me clarify though...I no

Let me clarify though...I no way suggest to stay in the marriage if it is abusive IN ANY WAY! I went through that, and THAT is not whats best for the children. But I think there are many cases where people do not think through their actions in the long term. Which is sad once there are kids involved. Like all the cheaters out there that are ruining their marriages. I mean, how selfish can you be? Sorry if that offends anyone, thats not my goal. Or people that have kids, recognize their marriage is in trouble, and do nothing to help the situation like seek counseling, stop engaging in screaming fights, learn to communicate without name calling, etc. If thats how you want your marriage to be, fine, but once you have kids, I think its very selfish behavior because you are playing with fire...and its the kids that end up burned.

"Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There's too much fraternizing with the enemy"

I actually need to clarify.

I am not in any way a proponent of staying together "for the kids." My parents did just that, and it was miserable. Kids know when their parents aren't happy, and that stresses them out a lot. I think in the long run it's often much less stressful for kids to have divorced parents who are happy and have good lives.

What I meant to say was this: people who are contemplating divorce need a LOT more information about what it will be like post-divorce than they probably have any access to. Most of them are just thinking of getting out, restarting their lives as single people, having a lot of feelings of guilt about what the kids will go through, etc.

But, I think that a lot of the choices people make while they're going through this process are choices that they might make differently if they knew the unintended consequences many of their decisions could have. For example:

Many ex-couples try to make the transition as smooth as possible for their kids by trying to keep the routines as much like their former families as possible. This leads to a lot of fuzzy boundaries and a relationship between the parents that is not quite married, not quite separate. This incomplete break probably seems like the "best" thing to do for the kids because it seems less brutal. But:

Unintended consequences:
- The kids are therefore not emotionally prepared for the more complete break that will inevitably happen when one of the exes gets seriously involved with someone else for the first time
- The exes themselves don't realize how tied to their former relationship they are, even though they're divorced, until one of them finds a significant other
- The kids, because their parents still seem "involved" with each other, take their cues on how to accept the new significant other from what they see: that their parents are still the "real" relationship, and if the SO starts to take on more importance in the parent's life, it feels to them like there's something "wrong".
- The exes themselves also have a hard time incorporating the SO: the one who isn't partnered up may feel abandoned and act out. The one who has the SO may feel guilty and try not to "choose"...

See what I mean? ALL of this stuff could be avoided if people who were considering divorce would somehow have to mentally walk through all of these things. Knowing all the problems their tendency to have an incomplete break will probably cause might cause them to either:

- rethink getting divorced in the first place; OR
- do the work to establish CLEAR post-divorce boundaries from the very beginning.

If more ex-couples did these things, I bet this website might not even exist.

- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)

yes I agree...

I understand your point. I think a lot of couples need to do more to stay happy in their marriage instead of let it all build up, and eventually lead to divorce. Its selfish. If you love each other (and most people do at some point if they got married) then you need to work at the marriage because we all see what ends up if you don't. Unfortunately, people don't realize just how complicated their lives will end up being if they do not take care of their marriage.

"Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There's too much fraternizing with the enemy"

I agree.

I agree that people's divorces complicate lots more than they think they will. I don't think any of these people have any idea how many more lives are going to become so much more complicated by the fact that they are divorcing.

Again, not to say I don't believe in divorce. I'm divorced myself, and best thing I ever did (except marry DH.) I FIRMLY believe that sometimes divorce is the best choice.

But wow, think of how complicated DH and BM's divorce made things for:
DH
BM
SD16
SD15
Me!!!!!!
DH's parents and siblings, who for a while didn't know what to do because BM was calling them for favors and they didn't know how to continue a relationship with her but also be loyal to DH by welcoming me into the family
Etc., etc.

Not that they shouldn't have gotten divorced -- but that life would have been a lot easier on everyone if they had done a better job of really cutting the ties.

- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)

I totally agree with you

That isn't what my single most profound thing is necessarily, but being both BM with a SM in the picture, and SM with BM barely in the picture, has taught me a ton about the consequences of divorce. I think I have actually managed on my part to mostly put the kids needs over my own ego, need to control etc, and not everyone is able to do that.

BUT I also was a child of "parents who stayed" miserably ever after, and for my sons sake, for their chance to view a positive marriage with DH and myself, for their chance to see their dad and I get along, SM and I get along and form a bond...those things to me outweigh any negatives as far as I can see right now. There are inconsistencies between homes, but really, sadly actually, my sons' situation of divorced parents, step parents, two homes- are the average among their peers now a days, rather than the exception. And SD's friend's parents' marriages are dropping like flies around our neighborhood. I am so relieved that I did divorce their dad when I did, as the kids my kids ages, middle schoolers who's parents have waited til now, are not adjusting well at all. Add to that the fact that for some reason every one of these parents (usually the dad's I'm getting to know for some reason) are bitter, angry, or wallowing. And I am completely bias, but I'm betting from the stories I can piece together, that many of the moms are leaving for the same reason I did- realizing I was going to hate/resent/blame my spouse for my unhappiness the rest of my life if I didn't go when I did.

Anyway...
I have had to give up on total control of the values my kids have been taught. We are much more strict and far less indulgent to their whims than their SM's parenting style is. The cell phone purchase for my BS 14 still gets my goat as he had very little interest other than the novelty of it, and I personally see no reason for them to own their own cell (we have an extra they can take for "emergencies") until they can sign the contract and pay the bill.

Things like that I never imagined, especially as my ex and I did and still agree to a great degree on those things. His wife does not, and he gives in because her kids get to have many things handed to them or overlooked and he feels he just can't have such a double standard as to "your kids/my kids" all the time. It simply isn't fair to my sons. And that makes me sad. Though I think my sons are starting to understand my position more, as well as the fact that they will have to earn their own way in life.

Keeping my fingers crossed on that one.

BB- I took a class from an editor for a national mag, and formerly an editor for a major city newspaper. When I mentioned an idea for an article on adult kids of parents who stayed, AND other blended issues, she got very excited and encouraged me to pitch it.

Of course THEN BD 3 was born and my writing is more a hobby than professional quality these days!

Let me know if you want to brainstorm sometime.

"To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them?" ~Hamlet Act III scene I

Sita

Sounds like you and I have a lot in common.

I would definitely like to brainstorm sometime. I'm an academic, so I have a lot of experience writing, but not nonacademic articles/subjects. If your parental situation has sidetracked you, maybe we could brainstorm or even collaborate. Sounds like you have more connections than I have (like I said, any connections would be from academic presses that don't publish this sort of thing). I probably have more free time than you. Could potentially be a good partnership!

I'll PM you this same message, just in case you don't get around to reading this.

- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)

Don't Agree...

Well, obviously you DO have to try to work it out, but sometimes 2 people can't stand each other, or they just don't love each other, and staying in a relationship ONLY for the sake of the children is a mistake, children need two parents that love each other, and if that can't happen it is healthier to just split up... and find someone you do love, so the child can learn what love in an adult relationship is.

~You can see clearly only with your heart. What is truly important is invisible to the eyes~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry's

I used to think this. Which

I used to think this. Which is weird because my parents are divorced and I very much felt the effects of it growing up. But then I had to read all these studies about families in my sociology class, and they show that children are no better off with split parents that do not love each other (EXCEPT in cases of abuse) then they are with parents that split and remarry...in fact they are worse off because they are no longer in a home where both parents want whats best for them above themselves and their marriage and they are forced to readjust. According to these studies, when both bio parents are married, they both want the best for their kids and many will put them above their own needs. In stepfamilies, not always the case...apparently its very often NOT the case. This is not intended as a jab to any of you, its just what the studies have found, based on interviewing stepparents themselves. We are just a very small percentage of stepfamilies in this world and I'm not saying this is always the case, so no one take this as a personal attack on you or your situation, please!

"Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There's too much fraternizing with the enemy"

That's the thing...

You see... for me... marriage comes first...

a healthy marriage between biodad and stepmom or biomom and stepdad is better from and healthier (if there is no love for each other, it is not healthy) than a marriage between both bioparents! and this can potentially affect the foundation on which the child is going to base his/her future relationships.

If you grow up in a home environment in which mom and dad didn't love each other, you'll witness mom and dad NOT being happy. Because a child gives you happiness, but it is not ALL the happiness an individual needs, every individual needs a partner to love and feel loved, it is a different and irreplaceable kind of satisfaction the one you get from your child from that of your partner.

In the long run, the child might even feel like it was his/her fault the parents stayed together, and therefore, were never truly happy.

The child will eventually leave, find a partner, marry and have his/her own family and children. The parent? left alone, with a life "wasted" only because he/she didn't want to divorce because of the children, now there is no more "youth" left, 18 years (more or less) down the drain, those years that could have been lived happily with love from and to another partner....

THATS A WASTE OF A LIFE!!!

there is only one lifetime, and living life without love is just sad, especially living with someone you are supposed to love and you do not love.

Ideally, the biological parents SHOULD live together with their offsprings, but that is, if they love each other. And since life is not always fair, and people do not always choose their partners wisely, or simply, people change and interests are different, then blended families occur.

~You can see clearly only with your heart. What is truly important is invisible to the eyes~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry's

Yes, marriage comes first

I'm speaking more of before it ever gets to this point...before they fall out of love in the first place. People need to think about their marriage and work on it so they don't end up wanting a divorce in the first place. If more couples would take the initiative to resolve problems, communicate effectively and seeking help when they are having problems, we wouldn't have so many people wanting divorces. So I think if you have kids with your spouse, people should think twice before cussing out their husband, cheating, picking fights, etc. Because it leads to a very complicated life and ends up hurting their children.

"Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There's too much fraternizing with the enemy"

In the long run

"In the long run, the child might even feel like it was his/her fault the parents stayed together, and therefore, were never truly happy."

That's TOTALLY how I felt with my parents. And I'll go a step further:

When I left to be on my own, I felt horribly guilty because I knew that without me in the house, there was nothing there for either of my parents. I had the horrible sense that I was abandoning my parents. I was GUILT-PARENTING my OWN PARENTS!

I think, as sticky as all this is, it is important for kids to see their parents pursuing lives that make them happy. Because if they don't, they get one of two messages:
1) You shouldn't expect to be happy (it's better to suffer if you're not happy than to leave)
or
2) Marriage is something that makes people unhappy/couples can't be happy long term. That's the message I learned, and it took me years to unlearn it. If my parents had divorced and then remarried, then maybe the message I would have learned was, "Some people make mistakes and aren't right for each other." A much less weighty and depressing lesson.

- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)

By the way...

" they both want the best for their kids and many will put them above their own needs."

That is a HUGE problem right there. If you put your child needs over that of your partner's, it only leads to divorce or great unhappiness from both parties.

I belive in doing what's right "for the family", and both parents (bio or not) being a solid team, and united front for the children.

When you base your entire marriage on the children, when the children are no longer "children" and leave the house, then you find yourself "baseless" because your "base" is now gone, and you look at this "strange" person that you barely know next to you, and realize all the time you lost...

~You can see clearly only with your heart. What is truly important is invisible to the eyes~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry's

I said their OWN needs, not

I said their OWN needs, not their partner's or marriage. Any good parents will put their children's needs above their own personal needs. Many times, in step families, only bio parents will put their own needs aside for their children. I'm mean, come on, we ALL see the problems that arise when trying to blend families. If more couples actually did put their marriage above all else, the number of blended families wouldn't be anywhere near what they are.

"Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There's too much fraternizing with the enemy"

I so totally disagree

"....in fact they are worse off because they are no longer in a home where both parents want whats best for them above themselves and their marriage and they are forced to readjust. According to these studies, when both bio parents are married, they both want the best for their kids and many will put them above their own needs."

What about the studies that show children will go on to have poor relationships/divorces because their parents were so disconnected that the kids were put above the marriage?

That one exists as well.

I can tell you this- I had no idea how to relate to men, or to wait til I came into my own person and really knew myself, growing up in a house where my parents loved each other/ but disliked everything about the other. I assumed at the time they didn't love each other, but now know differently. They were both just screwed up in their ability to have a positive relationship with each other and that's what they taught me love was. So when exH seemed to dislike things about me, to think he needed to refine me etc, I thought that was normal. When I felt so unhappy in our relationship, when we argued all the time, I thought THAT was normal. All the things that I now know to be dysfunctional, were things that my radar was totally oblivious to.

DH says the same thing about his parents and their relationship too. I learned most profoundly that women were taught to put their dreams out of their minds and instead focus on what the husband wanted to do. I also learned that the best way to handle that was to lead a dual life- out in my theatre world with people I LOVED being around, and miserable in my home, focusing on my sons, maybe having many more kids if I had stayed, in attempts to ground me there, cement me in, and quiet the voice of reason calling out from my soul, demanding I leave and find my own happiness.

I don't think it's the parents putting the kids first when they stay unhappily ever after. I think it's the parents placing all of their happiness on cultivating their kids in order to live vicariously through them. I felt that heavy burden growing up, knowing she must be "staying for us".

I now know differently. She was staying because it was safe. Secure. And it's easier to go through life never taking a risk to be happy while blaming someone else for your lack of fulfillment.

That's why I left my first marriage. And believe me, when I finally told my mom that I just didn't want to be 60 looking back and thinking that I gave away most of my life to someone who didn't care about what made me feel happy and fulfilled, that I didn't want to look at ExH one day with complete contempt and resentment, she did not take that well. That's another tale for another day. But she's way over that now. Now she's proud of me and how brave I was, and all I accomplished the years I was totally on my own.

Exactly!!!!!

"I don't think it's the parents putting the kids first when they stay unhappily ever after. I think it's the parents placing all of their happiness on cultivating their kids in order to live vicariously through them. I felt that heavy burden growing up, knowing she must be "staying for us"."

Sita is right on on this one. This was my situation exactly. I felt SOOO burdened by the knowledge that my parents essentially had no one else to focus on but me. And when I grew up and moved away, my parents never really changed. Until the day both of them died, they were living examples of what Sita says: "It's easier to go through life never taking a risk to be happy while blaming someone else for your lack of fulfillment." They were two of the least fulfilled people I have ever known. And to be honest, the grief and loss I felt and still feel at their being gone is for the most part remnants of guilt that I couldn't do more to make them happy, plus intense sadness that their lives were so empty.

That is no legacy to leave your children. That is not giving them roots to feel anchored and wings to grow. My parents did the best they could, and I know they loved me more than anything. But the biggest gift they could have given me would have been the gift of living their own lives to the fullest.

- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)

I don't expect a website

I don't expect a website full of 2nd wives to agree with these studies. You really have to look at it objectively and not from your own personal experiences. These studies do not say all kids, they go off the majority and you may not be included in that. But the fact that children of divorce are much more likely (3 times I think it is) to get divorced themselves and the rates of divorce in 2nd marriages supports their findings that kids are worse off when parents split if there is no abuse. Apparently what they go through in the splitting of homes is not outweighed by the benefits of seeing a happy re-marriage (which by the divorce rate alone is only 25% of them). So I understand if your opinion differs based on your own experience, I'm just telling you what these studies found and that I realized after reading all of it that I agree...ESPECIALLY because I see all the problems with blended families from this very site.

"Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There's too much fraternizing with the enemy"

I respect your perspective.

And I would see your point, except:

1) I felt this way long, long before I was ever even married the first time.

2) My parents, as I said before, stayed married. So that should have helped me to not get divorced, but it didn't. I think what it did was stunt my belief in marriage to the point where it took me until well into my 30s to even feel like I could consider getting married. And that has nothing whatsoever to do with my status as a second wife or stepmom. I didn't come to these realizations from being a stepmom at all.

What being a stepmom has led me to think is that when people decide to get divorced, they need to do a mature and intelligent job of it, with a view to the future that isn't selfish and that isn't focused on an unrealistic expectation that the ex-spouses won't move on and create new families. I think that that is the biggest reason that we have so many problems with blended families like we see on this site. The divorce rate in second marriage is so obscenely high in part because of the fact that the first marriages are not really resolved yet.

- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)

Yes, they do. Problem is,

Yes, they do. Problem is, the majority can't agree on the "right" things to do/not do in a divorce, nor can they come to mature and intelligent decisions together...if they possessed those skills they probably wouldn't be getting divorced in the first place! And unfortunately, divorce doesn't solve most of the problems (fighting, miscommunication, different parenting styles, etc) but actually increases them. You still have to deal with each other and you still have to parent your kids together. Only now there are a whole new set of problems, and eventually two more people (new spouses) and their opinions brought into it as well. It just snowballs. So these "experts" are saying that in most cases, from the perspective of the child's needs, they really aren't any better off than living with parents that no longer love each other (but are in no way abusive). I can see their point.

"Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There's too much fraternizing with the enemy"

Good point

Good point about the fact that many divorcing couples can't really be mature and intelligent enough to divorce "well." But in those situations where they "can't live with each other, can't live without each other," my guess is that it's probably a wash. Either the kids are in a household where the parents fight constantly, or they're in two households where the parents fight sporadically, but more out of the sight of the kids.

It's impossible to say in which situation those particular kids would be better off. After all, you can't test two outcomes on one family simultaneously. I think in those situations where people just can't deal with each other at all, it's probably a wash for those kids.

But I do think that for two people who are miserable with each other but not childish and mean-spirited, if they REALLY believe in putting the children before their problems, they could learn to divorce "well" and keep the stress mostly out of their kids' lives post-divorce. But it would probably demand a revolution in marriage counseling to transition a couple who are having problems into a new phase once it became evident that divorce was inevitable. After all, once a couple decides to divorce, therapy stops. The focus shifts from trying to communicate to getting a lawyer and trying to win the "battle." If divorce therapy was the next step, I could see things being different...

- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)

I know, right?!

I guess thats why they make some people go to parenting classes together. Honestly though, I think it gets a whole lot more complicated once one/both remarry. It probably wouldn't be so bad on the kids if both parents stayed single...but then trying to blend families, people have different priorities/values, etc...things can get pretty complicated! So back to the fact that if more people put their marriages first and worked on them, they wouldn't wind up falling out of love/wanting a divorce. And you're right, these studies are comparing all family situations, because they can't compare both possibilities on the same family. Life is hard, thats REALLY the most profound thing I've learned LOL

"Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There's too much fraternizing with the enemy"

But wait...

Back to my point that if the parents stayed single then they are essentially showing their kid not to pursue happiness. And then there's the "living for/throughyour kids" thing that I was talking about earlier, that is so destructive...

Melis, I'm curious -- you're divorced with a kid from that marriage, right? (No, I didn't remember that, I had to look it up! Would you say that you and your ex should have worked it out? Do you think that if you had worked harder, you wouldn't have divorced?

I agree with you: if there's one thing being a stepmom HAS taught me, it's that life is soooooo much more complicated than I ever would have realized if I hadn't gone down this path!

- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)

Really, I've seen all sides

Really, I've seen all sides of it and there is no one answer thats right for all families. Its impossible. I divorced my exH because 1 yr into the marriage, after he came back from Iraq, he became physically & verbally abusive. He went to jail, I filed for divorce. I think because we live so far apart we don't run into all the issues that a lot of families have to deal with. Unfortunately, I have to comfort my son every few days because he's crying about missing his dad My parents divorced when I was 2...I never knew how their marriage was. Lucky for me, I wound up with a GREAT stepmom. But when I was 12 my dad & SM moved across the country and I pretty much lost my dad, and half siblings. When I was 25 I moved to their state to get to know that side of my family again. My half sibs are much younger than me (my stepmom is 12 yrs younger than my dad) and I got to see them grow up with their parents together. Thing is, my dad & stepmom are happily married...but FIGHT LIKE CRAZY! My dad is the type to really let it fly when he gets pissed, but at least nothing gets held in. So my half sibs grew up with parents that are happy & still married, but they witnessed a lot of craziness as well. My mom & SF are also still married (25 yrs) but growing up they fought like crazy, to the point we were scared at times. I can't say what my life would have been like if they not got divorced, and I was young enough that it was just a fact of life for me, but I did realize that I was always missing out on one parent's life while I was with the other, nothing ever felt "whole" and I never got to grow up in a house where both parents put my needs above their own personal needs. Which meant that I never got help buying my first car, never got help paying for college, never got help paying for my wedding...never got a lot of things. Yet my half sibs (on both sides) got their cars given to them, their college paid for, and now the oldest is going to be married soon...and will have her wedding paid for. So I see the benefits of having two parents together that both want to help their children vs. having divorces ones that try to push things off on the other...know what I mean? But really, the feeling of not fully belonging to either side and their "new" families is what the hardest part was.

"Nobody will ever win the battle of the sexes. There's too much fraternizing with the enemy"

Informed consumer AND critical thinker...

Become an informed consumer. There are studies of all sorts; not everything you read and see is necessarily accurate. Who performed the studies you have talked about? in which year? is it something from the American psychological association, or something of that nature? is it something you read a few years ago? studies change, as people and culture change! every day there is new knowledge available.

All I'm saying is that the fact that "it came from a study" does not mean anything (to me) that is just too vague...

But I CAN show you many references how a loveless marriage can affect children's perceptions of love and relationships... Just let me know if you want the specifics...

~You can see clearly only with your heart. What is truly important is invisible to the eyes~ Antoine de Saint-Exupéry's

dup...

I am objective as anyone can be- and as objective as you are

I'm not writing as a "second wife" at all, no more than you are.

I am writing my response as an adult child of parents who stayed. It did not serve us well at all, to think we were responsible for their unhappiness, by them feeling obligated to stay for us. As adults we have all been in very dysfunctional first marriages. Our home was so full of contempt, so lacking in caring between my parents, that my sister and I both WISHED for our parents to divorce as soon as we were old enough to even hear that divorce existed. My sister told me a few years ago that she was FIVE when she found out married people could split up, and EVERY day she wished my father would not come home. I was 10 when I became best friend with a girl who's parents were divorced, and I envied the happy home/SF she lived with. In order to escape the misery, my sister and I both married way too young trying to get out of that toxic environment. And we both were divorced around 30. My brother waited forever to marry- stating he NEVER would after living through my parents' marriage. He finally did around 30, and now my SIL is considering leaving him. He treats her just like my father treated my mother, and she is blaming him for being so miserable, just as my mother blamed my dad.

If the studies you refer to never take this other side into consideration, then they aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Toxic dysfunctional relationships affect kids. PERIOD.

As a matter of fact, one woman I worked with had parents who managed to really convince their kids they were happy, then divorced when my co-worker was in her 30's. Because they had solely focused on the kids to get through their misery, my co-worker threw a tantrum and now hates her mom for leaving. She told me one day, "My mom told me that she was miserable from the time I was 10 years old, but stayed for us, and that she now wanted to live her life for herself since we are all raised with our own families. I asked her why she needed to be happy now then."

AND my co-worker MEANT it. She could not appreciate that her mom gave up her youth on their behalf. She only wanted more of that. She also expressed the fact that knowing now that it was that way discounted everything from her childhood. It was all a lie to her now. Not a good situation.

Melis, when you say we're biased as second wives, I really wish you would consider you are biased as a child of divorce as well.

I know I am biased as a child who -

When I was 12 my oldest brother (17) was traumatically injured in an auto accident. He was barely surviving and in a coma. The next morning, my second oldest brother came upstairs to tell me what happened and started with, "Mom and dad aren't here.

My immediate response?

I hopefully asked, "Are they at an attorney's?"

And when he told me where they really were, before I could grasp and while I was I'm sure still in shock, I was disappointed that it meant they weren't going to be able to divorce.

Perhaps Melis, somewhere deep down you mourn your parents' marriage, and a "normal" traditional upbringing. That your life would have been better had your parents worked it out and still feel at a loss that they didn't put your needs above their happiness. I'm letting you know now that my mother also did not put my needs above her happiness. There was no physical abuse in our home, and really by most standards it wasn't verbal abuse either. It was just total dysfunctional relating.

And boy oh boy...they didn't then turn their focus on putting us first anyway. Just both lived parallel lives to avoid conflict as much as possible.

And the sad part is, it took me into my mid twenties to realize that it was not solely my father's fault as I had always believed. If only he wouldn't have criticized her every thought/move/enjoyment in life then she could have been happy. Or maybe it was my grandparents' fault for not allowing her to marry her first love, because he was Catholic and she was Methodist.

My mother allowed others to dictate her happiness her whole life.

And I was following in her footsteps completely. How unfair would it be to let my sons hate their dad, as my sibs and I did, how could I help break the cycle of martyrdom my mother, her mother, etc passed onto us like blond hair and blue eyes.

I did it the only way I knew how. I left. And my sons, in this case, are much better off for it.

I agree that your kids need to see the example of a happy you.

This is actually the conversation I had with DH when we were first together and he was having a little trouble not caving to BM's demands all the time. She was trying to manipulate him with the "how can you put your 'girlfriend' above your own children" thing -- which she used on him one night when SHE went to a party during the weekend SHE was supposed to have the kids, leaving her own daughter home alone, who needed a shot for a chronic condition and wasn't able to give it to herself. BM called DH to ask him to give her the shot, but he didn't answer, so she didn't bother leaving a message -- so, of course, he had no idea that she wanted him to do it. Then the next day she reams him a new one and tries to make him feel guilty for not answering the phone because "you were with your new girlfriend."

Kind of a digression, I know. But while DH and I were talking about it, I told him that the best thing he could do for his kids was to show them the model of a happy, respectful couple. I said that contrary to what BM thought, it was NOT better for him to just be alone so he could be the emergency husband whenever she needed a favor. It's more important by far for the kids to see their father in a stable relationship so they know it can happen. An added benefit would be if they could see their mom being independent and handling things on her own.

- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)

Newbie, but learning....

Me DF, and SD9 (50/50) have been living together as a family for the past 7 months since we got engaged. As with any first year of stepcoupling. It has been a rollercoaster and we have already come so far. I will probably change my answer in a year, two, etc... On a positive note I have learned that I am the Queen of boundaries. Who knew.

I have also learned a huge new respect for Stepparents, including my own Stepdad who will be walking me down the aisle in 10 days.

Also a weekly stepmom support group and the various online groups is must to maintain sanity and be the best coparent possible.

The most profound thing Ive learned

that I do have more patience than I once thought..And it is possible to love a child whoms mother I cant stand..Because its not the childs fault who they are born too, and they deserve to be loved and respected just as anyone else..Also if you open your heart and welcome the skids they are willing to accept you..We all have flaws we just correct them and move on..

The future's uncertain and the end is always near." Jim Morrison

.

P.S

and that I will NEVER like or get along with SD..I love my SS's though..

"The future's uncertain and the end is always near." Jim Morrison

I learned that

being a step parent is the most difficult job. While I don't know what it's like to be a mom, I know that at least I will have children who will love me... I know that I can discipline them and set rules and boundaries because they are my children. As a step parent, I can't expect that. As a step parent, I've been taken advantage of... disrespected... left in the back burner because I am not a "parent." I am just the second wife.

Secondwife19, I couldn't agree with you more!

I'm shut out all the time except when it comes time for birthdays and holidays (I'm buying the gifts and cards), or when Skids come over to visit (I'm the one who does all the cooking and cleaning up). If my husband set boundaries from the beginning and taught them to respect him, things would be a lot easier and enjoyable. It's too late now...

I've learned that there are

really nasty BMs out there who don't care about their kids. They don't care about their own kids...and that's sad.

That there are even worse things than infidelity

"To Thine Own Self Be True" William Shakesphere
or perhaps I should say that infidelity does not necessairly involve physical, or another woman.

There's financial infidelity.

And there are worse things than being alone.

And if you marry a man with daughters, you'd better check out that relationship throughly before saying I DO! Even then, look out. Watch your back.

That you can be the best

That you can be the best person in the world, and BM will still hate your guts for no reason and attempt to make your life miserable. Notice how I said "attempt". DH has told me over and over again "If you let her get to you, she wins." So I try to not let her get the best of me...sometimes they are just so annoying!

A little different spin...

JamaicanMeCrazy
DISNEY LIED...THERE IS NO 'HAPPILY EVER AFTER'

That you can do your best to be a good wife and stepmom and still get beat by the olive branch...sigh....

not the mama

I've learned that no matter sane, safe, responsible, caring, stable parent I can be, I will always have to fight for regonition as mom of MY house and that I will always be compared to, and lose to, BM.

That no matter how much DH wants me to, I cannot replace BM. That at this point, I don't want to replace her either.

Thank no matter how hard I try, I cannot and will not love my SD's as my own BD and they will never love me like BM.

I've learned that

I need MY OWN family! I do not need to deal with an Ex-wife and come second to his first family and if BF and I attempt to have a child of our own, they will come second to his first family as well. Also, I learned that BF will always cater to BM for almost any reason because she is "the mother of my children" :sick:

that i didn't like it

and that it is not for me. prevously I had a fairy tale dream of being a happy family but I can honestly say that I disliked being a stepmom and I feel good that I've been given a free ticket out

One can only hope!

I've learned that

I've learned that Stepparents are only here on earth to be the scape-goats. We get blammed for everything from everyone (BM, Skids, DW or DH and even their families).

That if you are the one that

That if you are the one that initiated the divorce from your 1st spouse,everything that you hated about your 1st DH...the reasons that you divorced...you do NOT get away from them. In fact, they become magnified and your now Ex-spouse uses those exact same behaviors to annoy and torture you for the rest of your life with no hope of reprieve...because now they ENJOY getting under your skin.

That a child as young as 2 can be taught to hate and spew venom without developing any feelings of her own about the recipient of her hate/venom.

I am sure there are several....

I will try to narrow it down~

These apply to me, and by NO means do I think this should be true across the board when it comes to blended families:

1. Blood is NOT thicker than Water (I LOVE SS just like my own, I truly do)
2. I can't control ANYONE but ME
3. Just because MY momma taught me better, doesn't mean EVERYONES momma taught them better.
4. The apple really doesn't fall far from the tree. BM is JUST like her mother.

DISbelief~

~You have to BE crazy to UNDERSTAND crazy!~ ; )

That I am truly NOT a kid person...(at least not my SD's)...

...and to never get involved with anyone who has children from a previous relationship under ANY circumstances...EVER!! I swore to myself that I wouldn't go there after I broke off my previous engagement to a man who had a 9yr old son. Then a few years later, I met DH and thought, awww...he has the sweetest relationship with his 2 perfect daughters and WOW, he gets along with his ex really well (as long as he was kissing her ass, of course). Maybe it won't be so bad...I'm sure they will all just love me since everyone else who knows me does. Piece of cake!

Ha! Then we got together...and I was suddenly thrown into the pits of Hell with Satan herself pulling all of the strings...and her 2 evil little spawns watching my every move and learning different ways to manipulate me and their father. Learned behavior from Satan, of course.

Ahhh, just venting...AGAIN!

I have learned

That no matter how much I love my skids, it will pale in comparison to how much I love BD, and that it is ok to feel that way. I have also learned that being a step parent is like existing in a perpetual state of purgetory: expected to abide by the rules that you have "no right" to participate in the establishment of.

"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get me"

When dealing with ADULT stepchildren...

Their personalities are already THERE and they are going to be the way they ARE. Ergo, instead of trying to "adapt" to THEM, accept the fact that just MAYBE the best you'll ever be with them is CORDIAL and don't beat yourself up mentally if they don't "like you" just because you EXIST. Detach and get on with your OWN affairs.

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."-Eleanor Roosevelt

That there really is evil in this world

No lie, I am not exaggerating. My dad used to always tell me, when I thought people were evil, that I was wrong and it was not nice to think of people that way (?). But I have seen that not only can 'mother's be evil, so can 'children'! the last people you would ever suspect!

I was always a cynic, but now I just trust my gut when it tells me something is wrong! and don't get fooled by the packaging it comes in.

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth." - Vladimir Lenin

Great

thread! Thanks for starting it Endora.

I have learned that love is not enough

and that, often, even effort is not enough. DH and I both love each other dearly and both work extraordinarily hard at making our marriage work, and yet we fight one unconquerable obstacle after another. Some of our problems simply cannot be fixed and will not go away. I just have to decide if I can live with them.

Say what you want about divorce, but I cry at least 1/2 dozen times EVERY DAY, I'm miserable, and no one should have to live like this.

I learned that I only

have 4 more years to deal with these lazy boys messing up my house. Only two years before the oldest one goes somewhere(don't care just go somewhere) and four years before the youngest one leaves as well!

But whose counting!!

"And this too shall pass..."

I have learned (am still learning actually)

How to love another child as though she was my own, warts and all.

To keep searching, never give up, and find ways to live more compassionately toward those who most or all of the time live to hate me.

I have learned...

to give unconditional love to a child who is not always able to appreciate it.

That's why they call it unconditional I suppose.

But most profoundly, I've learned that unconditional love can exist without reciprocation, but relationships CANNOT.

What I have found the hardest to learn/accept.....

Is that for SOME reason this man that I so adore had three children with such a bottom feeding disgrace of a woman..it is just so hard for me to understand!!!!......I can't call her a mother bcuz she ran off and left the hard work for me.....but the greatest thing I have learned is that u can truly be a mother without having biologically given birth to the child....I actually never thought that was possible...and those who say it is not possible need to read my post "My Anniversary gift"

"Sooner or later, everyone's bill comes due"

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