Antidepressants and SD
I have 2 SD's and one is extremely messed up. In the literal.figurative.emotional sense - and I do not know what to feel. I am conflicted on this one, because I KNOW that depression is an illness and I KNOW that some folks need medications to help them get to that better place in their lives.
SD17 has no friends that she spends any time with. No activities except plunking the piano keys occasionally, singing in the shower and doing hair/makeup. No boyfriend/girlfriend. Bad grades, with many tardies and very little community service hours (might not graduate hs, and no college in the future from what I can tell). Bad acne. Her room is a disgusting mess, she is a horrible slob.
She sais that she is depressed and has anxiety. Her BM has taken her to the doctor and she has been given antidepressants. The anxiety is gone, but it hasn't cured the mean. She is still mean.
My question is, is it possible to become addicted to antidepressants? I feel like SD17 is using her anxiety and her emotional difficulty with the entire "Child of Divorce" situation as a crutch. Over 50% of marriages end in divorce. There are many functioning CODs. I feel like SD17 is using that to create a sense of guilt with her parents, SO and BM, so that they will continue to treat her like a child, so that she will not be required to do anything with her life, be required to take responsibility for anything, as if it gives her a "hall pass to be a$$hole".
I feel like she wears her victimhood like a badge of honor. She is almost 18. She is not required to have a job. Heck, she might not even graduate high school. She is rude and mean and selfish, a true narcissist, a liar and a thief (not a vey good one might I add). But because she is SO's flesh and blood, he has pledged to support her until she can support herself. Without expectations of her contributing ANYTHING.
I just want to say "poor baby, your parents are divorced, .... well suck it up sister, no one is coming to your pity party. Buckle up buttercup, and start living in the real world, where people work, earn money and have some ambitions of bettering themselves and the world". I want to tell her that had she been nicer to me, hadn't said vile, horrible unforgivable things to me, that I would have been happy to take her out on adventures. That I would have loved to have been her "bonus mom". To have shared my knowledge of cooking and food, to have taught her what I know about art, to have supported her musical interests, but that she has cut me to the core, and now I am gone.
But, she is DEPRESSED. And has ANXIETY. I try to have empathy for her, and just cant. I was told by a counselor recently, that "anything that is not love is a CRY for love." I simply have blocked her from that place in my heart.
She has been acting fragile lately, I know something is up, I feel it. She has been on her best behavior too. She washed her dishes last night, she ate with us at the dinner table. She was ready on time. So weird. SO responded to my questions just saying that she is "messed up".
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My tendency is to approach
My tendency is to approach things Holistically, such as blending counseling/nutrition/physical therapy/medication, all in tandem.
I do not wish to over "step" personal boundaries, but can you elaborate? I have no experience, and do not want to seem overly harsh. I am wondering, has this experience prevented your BD17 from doing anything?
Your daughter sounds very
Your daughter sounds very brave. Kudods to her for fighting!
SD17 is very lethargic, and
SD17 is very lethargic, and is acting sick. Coincidentally she has 2 tardies in 1 weeks time, is doing badly her senior year and was busted for shoplifting on New Years. I am trying to see where the cart and horse are in this one, so I can internalize and deal with it head on.
Yes, Llilac, I have started the disengagement process since I first found this site and read about how to disengage.
So scientists need to create a magic nice pill.
It's very difficult for
It's very difficult for anyone to know how someone else is feeling and I can give you two examples...
example #1- me- I have battled with anxiety on and off from my early 20's until now (I'm 46) There really seems to be no rhyme or reason for when it gets out of control... stress is about the only trigger I can attribute to the times that it has gotten bad enough that I need to seek help. Medication can help, but a pill often won't fix everyone. I do take medication, and sometimes that alone will help. Other times, I feel like it does nothing and I also need to use tools that I have been given over the years including meditation, deep breathing, and alternative thinking. And then there are times that NONE of those things help. There are also different kinds of anxiety. For instance General Anxiety Disorder, is basically feeling anxious most of the time, for no apparent reason. Then there is Social Anxiety disorder which is the fear of being around people (this sounds like possibly what your SD might have) and then there is Panic Disorder, (panic attacks) I was diagnosed with General Anxiety disorder and Panic disorder. I put on a brave face, I work a full time job, I go to the grocery store, I take my son to karate and sports practices, but it can be a daily, constant struggle. Most people would have no clue I have anxiety. Thankfully my DH is one of my supporters. He doesn't understand it at all, BUT if I am having a panic attack or feeling anxious about something, I can call him and talk to him and generally get it to pass with his help. I kind of feel bad for your SD, like she doesn't really have much support (when your DH refers to her as being "messed up") and where is BM?
example #2- then you have a gal that I know who was being raised by her grandparents, her mother was a loser druggie and not around and her dad was around.....but barely. She had all kinds of "issues" with abandonment and found early on that she could use that in her favor to get what she wanted. So whenever things weren't going her way, she would threaten suicide and grandma and grandpa would do exactly what she wanted (or didn't want) She's 19 now and has either grown out of that or is handling her life better. She is in college and doing well. This does not sound like your SD though. While your SD might be mean, I don't see that she is manipulative. And "mean" is not really a trait of anxiety, more a trait of chip on the shoulder?
You sound very brave and
You sound very brave and strong, Daisy. it is not an easy life, but a worthwhile one.
As to your question about BM: she is described by the same SD17 as being a borderline personality, very many highs and lows. I just call her b!tch. She is mean, manipulative and has the kiddos 50/50. She took SD17 to ER when she gave the teen her anti-anxiety meds and they caused anxiety. Xanax I think. The Dr was mad she would medicate the child, without Dr. approval.
She treats SD17 like her precious snowflake, and was very surprised when she found SD17 was telling her lies. "My BABEEE doesn't do that!!!"
So she is a strong influence, in other words. SD17 is VERY manipulative. If anyone argues with her, it is of course THEIR fault when she hits them or yells at them. And then she will lie about it and say that of course SHE NEVER DID ANYTHING WRONG.
Chip on the shoulder. Perhaps another way to describe her sense of entitlement and victim mentality. I realize this is perhaps overused, but it seems to fit.
I don't think you can become
I don't think you can become addicted to anti depressants though others may have a better idea about that, but some people become addicted to drama and playing the victim and do little to help themselves to recover from their mental health issues or take responsibility for their behaviour, and she sounds like one of them.
From my personal experience, I've seen two kinds of people with mental health issues - those who struggle, admit there's a problem and try to help themselves and those who are convinced they're poor victims who deserve pity and simply expect everyone else to run around after them.
I've had depression myself, as has my bd24, and my dh is still battling with severe depression and anxiety. None of us have ever used it as an excuse for poor behaviour or played the "poor me" card, and we have all taken action to help ourselves by taking medication and seeking professional help to deal with our issues. I'm pretty much stable now after being seriously ill with depression for many years and my bd24 has recovered from eating disorders, self harming and extreme anxiety by sheer determination to get herself well and live a normal life. Dh still has issues but is trying his best to overcome his anxieties and has never, ever used his problems as an excuse to behave badly towards anyone or expected me or anyone else to pity him.
On the other hand, my ex (my daughter's dad) and dh's ex (mother of my 3 ss's) have mental health problems and their attitudes are almost identical to each other - it's never their fault, it's always someone else's fault, they haven't done anything wrong and they can't help it because other people have made them the way they are. They go around telling lies in a pathetic bid to seek pity and attention and for a woman in her 40's and a man in his 50's it's absolutely pathetic! In bm's case, she blames childhood abuse for her crappy behaviour and convinced herself that dh getting custody wasn't because she's a mentally unstable alcoholic who emotionally abused the boys, but because he's a monster who "took my boys away from me" and 10 years later still cannot accept the truth and loves to post poor me crap all over FB. I see her excuse about abuse as complete bullshit. While it's tragic that she suffered abuse as a kid and no one should have to go through that, I cannot accept it as an excuse for mistreating her own kids. I was also abused as a teen and did not emotionally abuse my own kid because of it and protected her as much as I possibly could from her dad's emotionally abusive behaviour towards me, even going against his "orders" knowing I'd have days of hell to make sure she got to do normal things she wanted to do like spend time with her grandparents. My ex has no such excuse - he had a loving and normal family who he treated like shit so due to his behaviour, he's on his own in a disgusting house which is like what you see on those extreme hoarder TV programmes. Bd chose to have nothing to do with him, his family disowned him and he doesn't have any real friends and it's all of his own making. He'll still tell anyone who listens that it's either my fault, his mother's fault or now she's an adult, bd's fault, even though it's nearly 12 years since I left him and his mother has since passed away, and that's going to be his life till he dies.
I think with these types of people, it's very difficult to get them to change. Depression and anxiety can be improved by medication, therapy and a lot of effort from the person who wants to recover, but someone's personality and mindset is far more difficult to change. The medication may ease the depressive symptoms but the mindset will remain and if she's one of these "poor me" types, it's going to take some serious psychological therapy to have any hope of reversing her attitude and making her into a decent human being. Age is on her side - both my ex and my dh's ex are much older and entrenched in their ways and there might be more hope while she's still young, but her parents are going to have to work together and be on the same page with getting her the right therapy and following through on the work she will probably have to do to achieve anything.
those who struggle, admit
those who struggle, admit there's a problem and try to help themselves and those who are convinced they're poor victims who deserve pity and simply expect everyone else to run around after them.
This is exactly what I was trying to say with my two examples. You either address it and manage/cope, or you use it as way to manipulate others.
Thank you Sasha, for sharing
Thank you Sasha, for sharing those extremely personal and painful experiences. I am hoping for massive and miraculous changes with this almost-adult. I think she is pretty set by now, and will NOT do the work required for change.
You expressed it so eloquently when you stated:
"I think with these types of people, it's very difficult to get them to change. Depression and anxiety can be improved by medication, therapy and a lot of effort from the person who wants to recover, but someone's personality and mindset is far more difficult to change."
Only she can institute these changes. But she has been getting worse as she ages...
Thank you Dancing. Truer
Thank you Dancing. Truer words were never written.
I self-medicate with wine and an occasional shot.
Thank you Tara - however, I
Thank you Tara - however, I strongly feel that my SD17 has designed her life the way she wants it. To us, it is sad, but I think she is
too miserable to make efforts to change anything or (b) too lazy, to "get her own life together". or (c) She really doesn't like other people that much.
For us, money is definitely an issue. I have tried to help, and suggested that she be required to volunteer (animal shelter/hospital/something!!!) but since I am not her parent, all I can do is suggest. I forgot to mention she also doesn't drive, so she depends on other people to give her rides everywhere. She has been banned from shopping until 18 (shoplifting charges in January), so I feel much of her misery is of her own causing.
I do agree that perhaps people tend to overmedicate their kids. its an easy fix, for something that is definitely not easy.
My So thinks she has a mental illness. I think her mental illness is called Narcissism. However I am trying to open my heart up to some kind of empathetic truce. She has been pretty horrible to me in the near past.
CLove - I'm sorry but SD is
CLove - I'm sorry but SD is bluffing and manipulating every one... it's an excuse for her bad behavior...
Deigma pulled the same shit in his school years, he never studied, spelled his word wrong on purpose...he googled dyslexia... and knew what exactly to do, the day I got a call from the school and they told me I have to get him tested and some or other shit, I almost blew up and I called him into the office, told him to bring his books... paged through it, the little fucker got good marks, without studying cause he switched his b/d/t/e and some other word orders,
Mummy chew him up and told him... you are mis informed about the illness, if you ever do this again to get away from studying you will not be able to sit for a week...
funny his dyslexia got cured instantly.....
so I do not belief children who self diagnosed....
Acratopotes, thank you - your
Acratopotes, thank you - your bold, brash directness is refreshing, after all the "tiptoeing through the tulips" I have to do. Wow! Your kiddo feigned Dyslexia!!! That's sort of funny. Ive never heard of someone doing that before. Typically its "Im too sick, or the dog ate my homework..."
SO sais I am too harsh. That his precious is "scarily depressed". Meanwhile she's strumming away on her guitar, singing loudly to her music in the shower and spending hours looking at herself in the mirror doing her hair and makeup and now her hair extensions (online shopping....). I know this is what she does because the door is still off.
But I must feel sorry for her! Oh H@ll no. Shes not even a "master manipulator". She just pushes all the buttons until something happens and remembers what those buttons were. And when the buttons stop working or they don't work the way she wants, she backs off into the "poor little child of divorce, aren't I so sweet, cute, precious, and cool with my pink hair????"
then simply call her out...
then simply call her out... tell her cut out the crap, you are not the first child who's parents got divorced and you will not be the last child this happens to, pull yourself together and get a life... be harsh, who cares
if DH says anything simply tell him, go and research depression, your brat is bluffing and you are falling for it... take him to a hospital where there's actually people with major depression issues.... and ask does this look like you manipulative little brat?
it's time to take control.....I will not allow people to use me, I decided last year, not walking on egg shells anymore, eff that...
Sane - YES. You get it, like
Sane - YES. You get it, like everyone here. I am on the outside looking in. And I have seen how BM acts. She self medicates on Xanax, alcohol, and P@t. Now, to be fair, SD17 doesn't drink, or smoke or any other drugs, except for her "meds". She cant go "shopping". Until she is 18, of course.
I think she wants to be treated like the special snowflake, fragile and broken (because, don't you know, her parents are divorced!!! GASP)
I am simply conflicted in feelings. I don't want to be cold and harsh, that is the worst side of me, but that is what it comes down to.