This is a great website about CS
Here is the site: http://childsupportguidelines.com/articles/art200004.html
I particularly liked this quote:
"To really solve the problem of delinquent fathers, we must try to find the root cause of fathers' failure to pay child support. . . . What can we do to remedy this situation? I believe the answer lies in one word: accountability. If fathers could see where their money is going and can be assured that their children are receiving the money, then, I believe, many fathers would be more likely to maintain their child support payments."
I know that this was a big issue for us as we knew for certain that the CS we paid BM was NOT going to the kids. If we KNEW that the CS was going to the kids and BM was held accountable for how the CS was spent, then we would have slept much easier at night. I think that a lot of men have issues paying because they don't have reassurance that the money is going to the kids, not because they have issues with financially helping to support their kids.
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That's exactly right. For
That's exactly right. For 12 years I've been telling EH how I spend my CS for perfectson. EH will always say it's fine and has told me numerous times that he has never questioned how I spent CS on perfectson because he can SEE for himself how I've spent it!! Nice clothing, shoes, cell phone, electronics, extra-curriculars out the wazoo....
I wish you were my SDs' BM
I wish you were my SDs' BM
A friend of mine has a
A friend of mine has a "debit card" that her CS goes onto each month. I thought it was pretty neat and an easy way to track what the money is being used for if it provided a statement of the purchases.
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“Unless commitment is made, there are only promises and hopes; but no plans.”
I really think CS should be
I really think CS should be put on a debit card so all expenditures can be looked at by the NCP, and make BM (or BD) keep all receipts pertaining to the card. No receipts, you're in contempt. If BM's can document every single word SM or ex DH has ever said or done, they can hold onto a receipt and document their spending.
I think it would really help ex spouse relations. The BM's might not like it, but they'd have no choice but to get used to it if they want the money. Eventually it would become the normal and that would be that.
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." ~Eleanor Roosevelt
I have to disagree with you
I have to disagree with you on the receipts part. Not because I don't think the CP should be held accountable for how the CS is spent, but because I think it would be much easier for the NCP to log onto the internet to track how the CS is spent. They could track it online the same way that we keep tabs on our banking accounts online. Then, when and if the NCP sees that the CP isn't using the CS on the kids, they can just print off the proof and email a copy to the courts and their attorney(s).
The problem I was thinking
The problem I was thinking about with Debit cards is that the card won't tell you exactly what was bought. It would just say you spent x amount of dollars at Walmart, but not for what. That's why I think receipts should be kept.
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." ~Eleanor Roosevelt
Not only that, but with
Not only that, but with debit cards, you can get cash back...so a debit could be seen as $120, but really the amount was $20 and the CP pockets the $100.
~*~Cheer up! It could be worse.
I cheered up, & it got worse!~*~
Hmmm.... however you're
Hmmm.... however you're getting into some tricky territory there when you start talking about groceries, utilities, gas, etc.... I don't believe this is very feasible.
Actually, those are the
Actually, those are the places that the money should actually be going. At least, that's my opinion. What would be tricky? (not trying to sound bitchy, just trying to get your point of view...interested in what you have to say).
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." ~Eleanor Roosevelt
Trust me I understand the
Trust me I understand the aggravation behind all this as we pay a hefty chunk of CS too each month and I can never figure out how she spends it. But putting on my BM hat....
How exactly would a person break down those bills? I buy groceries for DH, perfectson17, and myself. EOWE I have added groceries for SDs. How do I break down what percentage of groceries is actually for the benefit of perfectson? Or the water bill, same situation, some days perfectson takes MARATHON showers and since he does his own laundry he does lots of small loads wasting a ton of water. How do I figure a percetage of that bill? Electric/gas could be easier to figure because the thermostat is set at a regulated temp but the others??? There is no way to actually calculate that. Gas for my car is the same way. What percentage of my gas is actually being used for the thousands of trips dropping off/picking up from school... does that even count since I am the custodial parent anyway? If EH and I were together it wouldn't matter, so really why would it now?
If I am at Wal-Mart and I am buying detergent, deoderant, cat litter, etc... but I also need to pick up deoderant, shampoo/conditioner, etc for perfectson do I seriously need to pay for these items separate to keep a receipt? What about all the extra $5 or $10s for ballgames, school dances, etc... Keep a ledger? To me, that is just ridiculous and nit-picking.
Anyway, that's my perspective.
I'm not saying that kids
I'm not saying that kids don't deserve child support. Both parents need to support their children, the responsibility should not fall on one parent. It's BM's choice not to work, but I don't think that leaves her home as a stable environment for the skids. I also think there needs to be some kind of cap or some way to monitor expenses. There's a way to do it, it just needs to be found.
I despise these women that don't work. I am not happy that after my baby is born I have to put him in daycare so I can work to cover the money that BM is getting. Yes, I am bitter. I worry about my baby being in a daycare environment, getting sick with God knows what illnesses so BM can sit home and fester in front of her computer.
I'm a BM too, and I don't ask for child support. I work. I've never had a problem making ends meet. My relationship with my ex is much better for it as well. My kids are well taken care of at his house, and he knows they are here too.
I don't think it's being nitpicky at all. If I was given support, I would gladly monitor my expenditures and keep a ledger. If the skids are coming over in crap clothes while BM is carrying a Chanel bag and she's not working, I think I have every right to ask where that purse came from.
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." ~Eleanor Roosevelt
I understand that, I truly
I understand that, I truly do, as BM here does not have a real job either. She runs some type of internet business from home yet can't take SDs anywhere because she's busy, and then they look like crap at my house. But speaking as the type of BM that "I" am... It would be a huge hassle to track each and every dollar I gave perfectson, not to mention it would be so easy to lie... sure I gave him $20 for the ballgame when I really gave him $5. Sure this expensive shampoo/conditioner was for his bathroom, sure this dinner out at Red Lobster was me and perfectson. It would never work.
Now, for the record, I have always told my EH what perfectson's main expenses are and what I buy for him, because I am thankful for the child support I do get! Also on the rare occasion that perfectson stayed a week with his dad I let him skip paying that week because he's not used to the added expense of a teenage boy around and it saved me groceries and gas that week too.
I can definitely see your
I can definitely see your point, thank you for your opinion! I like to see all sides, especially since I only have my experiences to go on.
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." ~Eleanor Roosevelt
That's true... but that way,
That's true... but that way, the NCP can also make sure that the CS they send to the CP isn't being spent on manicures, pedicures, vacations for the BM, and other stuff solely for the BM that doesn't involve the kids at all.
It wouldn't matter. Because
It wouldn't matter. Because a smart bm would just use the cs for the house, groceries, utilities for the WHOLE family and use her money for all of those extras for herself.
If the rent or mortgage is getting paid, the kids aren't starving and they have adequate clothing, I really don't think its anyone's business what the other person spends their money on. They are responsible for a portion of the cs too, it just doesn't change hands.
It really does cost a lot to raise a kid and cs doesn't really touch on some things that the CP will ultimately pay out of pocket for what cs isn't factored into such as car insurance, private schools, special school trips, band fees, sports fees, school rings, prom dresses,college, etc. And god forbid the kid has a car accident, I'm sure the NCP wouldn't offer to help cover the deductible.
Copying you here... **It
Copying you here...
**It really does cost a lot to raise a kid and cs doesn't really touch on some things that the CP will ultimately pay out of pocket for what cs isn't factored into such as car insurance, private schools, special school trips, band fees, sports fees, school rings, prom dresses,college, etc. And god forbid the kid has a car accident, I'm sure the NCP wouldn't offer to help cover the deductible.**
Exactly!! Perfecton's class ring was $600 alone! Let's throw in his $250 letterman's jacket and you've got 2 1/2 months worth of what I got in child support!
My thing is that if the BM
My thing is that if the BM is not working, where is the money going.
My personal opinion is that if a bio-parent is not married and does not work, they shouldn't have custody anyway. CS is meant to cover some, not all of the child's expenses. Where is the other money coming from? How is an non-working parent a secure and stable environment?
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." ~Eleanor Roosevelt
You know why they don't
You know why they don't install the debit card thing?
Because seriously, how in the hell is BM going to explaine $1000.00 a month to raise a 15 year old? I'd like to see those receipts!
The system won't do that because then the BM's CS would get chopped because it'd prove its going to nails, hair, car payments, vodka, etc!
There's no way in ass it takes as much as some BM's get to raise a kid.
No way, no way, no way!!!
No way, no way, no way!!! $1000 for a 15 year old? When perfectson was 15 I got $280 a month and got by fine even putting $100 into savings!! In my mind it's even... I spent $280 he spent $280... so with that calculation, that would make it $2000 a month for a 15 yo? Riiiiiiight!!
I agree WSM. But.....you
I agree WSM. But.....you know BM has to have money to pay that mtg. pymt that she can't afford since her and DH aren't together anymore..........ummmmmmm......the freaking sell the house and move!
And she has to buy all that vodka. And she has to buy this and that and this and that, that everyone in the world has to do. But that's her excuse for robbing us blind.
You want to scream WSM? How
You want to scream WSM?
How about over $3600/month for two?
And DH and his ex share custody 50-50.
And DH pays for practically EVERYTHING EXTRA:
*ALL school tuitions (SD14- $11,ooo/yr tuition + extras, SD17- $14,ooo/yr tuition + extras)
*ALL school activities, and related expenses for said activities
*cell phones (so they can call their BM 8-10 times a day and text her another 20x a day)
*doctors and dentists visits (BM is supposed to pay for the first $250 for each child, but that's like getting blood from a stone!)
*personal care items (because most of the time when BM won't buy them for the girls, they just take the things WE buy for them over to the house in their bags when they pack to go over to her house and bring them back again)
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Sick to your stomach yet? Wait! there's more:
It used to be over $4200/month until oldest SD turned 18. Yup, it went down a MEASLEY $600. And we pay for SD19s college...
$53,000 a YEAR!!! Plus all the extras.
BM was supposed to help. When they first got divorced, she siad she "needed a lot of CS so she could one day contribute to their college education." Then it came time to pony up the dough. SURPRISE- she claimed she was broke. She did, however, buy oldest SD a comforter set and a set of dishes.
Yeah, that evens things out.
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Oh, there's more...
She once got another $4200+/month in ALIMONY!
And she left DH for another guy that she was cheating on.
Yeah, she married him and had another kid with him.
That was almost 7 years ago.
And she hasn't worked (save a piss-poor p/t job for 3 months, that was...cry..."too hard" for her!) in all that time.
She's CLEARLY using the CS to support herself, her new husband, her NEW KID and her lifestyle. Because everytime the girls have needed something at her house, they are met with the same familiar refrain,
"I don't HAVE any money- go ask your father."
Anyone want her address?!
"Of course things worked out nicely for Carol Brady...she had a live-in maid and Mike's first wife was DEAD!"
Ummmm.......... OMG....
Ummmm.......... :jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop:
OMG.... I am speechless.....
Okay 5 teens, that made me
Okay 5 teens, that made me sick to my stomach.
that's just INSANE.
Uh, WAY! Right now BM gets
Uh, WAY! Right now BM gets a total of $1500 a month. That breaks down to $838 for SS6 and $662 for Spousal Maint. (or as hubby calls it, "Lazimony!")
The Spousal Maintenance ends November 30, 2009, (47 days, but who's counting?!) Oh THANK GOD. Hubby and I have a feeling she's gonna wanna take him back to court for more CS, which really she shouldn't get. She only works part time and is capable of working full time elsewhere. She just chooses NOT to. So the earning potential is there, she's just not exercising it.
~*~Cheer up! It could be worse.
I cheered up, & it got worse!~*~
The point is that the cs is
The point is that the cs is a combination of both parents' salary. If the parents are making a combined income of x then of course thats what the standard of living would be if the parents were still together. The child should not have to suffer because their parents are no longer together.
I don't have a problem with supporting kids and I don't believe that child support alone is sufficient to support children. If you're a parent then you have to get used to the fact that there are going to be other expenses incurred with raising a child and the buck doesn't stop when you write the support check.
Alimony is what I have a problem with.
What I have a problem with
What I have a problem with is BMs who treat CS like alimony.
Personally, I don't think there should be any unemployed single moms. period. Unless they have some kind of ironclad pre-nup that says that get to sit on their ass and live the fairytale even if they turn into the biggest whore in town, if the marriage to prince charming fails, you don't get lounge around eating bon bons all day. But then again, that's just me. Get a part-time job, something anything. Work while dad has the kid. Make an effort. Also, if the children are not yet school age, then maybe staying at home would be permissible.
But the reality of this is TB, many, many, many BMs (the one in my case included) use CS to pay their entire expenses when the kids needs are not met. In the case of 5teens, well, CS is more than enough to get by on. In the case of our BM, she had ample childcare in the form of DHs extended family but she chose to go on welfare, foodstamps, etc. using CS to support her meth habit. The kids didn't have any clothes, they rarely had any food in the house. She was paying little to nothing for her HUD housing and couldn't keep the lights on.
Which is why she no longer has custody. But the CS system is screwed and accountability is the best suggestion I've heard of in forever to remedy it.
They don't allow that in
They don't allow that in Florida. BM either gets a job or the court imputs what they think she would make if she had a job. Same goes for deadbeat dads.
I'm referring to custodial
I'm referring to custodial BMs not BMs that are supposed to be paying CS. I think custodial BMs should have to contribute something monetarily to their children, but the reality of it is many of the don't. They expect CS to cover everything for the child and they contribute nothing or the case of our BM she provided the bare minimum for the skids with CS and spent most of it on herself.
Yes.......I agree, 100%! "I
Yes.......I agree, 100%!
"I child proofed my whole house, but they STILL get in!"
Shouldn't they reword it to
Shouldn't they reword it to say delinquent father/mother....
My SO exwife has her wages garnished. When he does receive money it gets automatically transfered to an account with Chase. He has a debit card. If BM knew what he was spending the CS he has received she would majorly freak out. If a NCP goes for years without paying child support the CP has the right to spend the money on what he/she wishes. It should not be NCPs business as to what the money is being used for in this type of situation. SO attorney told him that he can spend the money on whatever he wants, its his....BM was ordered to pay CS back in 05. SO turned in the paperwork to have her wages garnished, I believe it was in March of 07. He was told it would take about a year until he saw any money. It took about 3 months for them to find her. He has been receiving CS sporadically since May of 07. We believe if she is working it is under the table because he has not received anything since the beginning of the year. There was a deposit for about $400 a few months back. We believe that came from her income tax refund. If she comes back to the state we are in she will more than likely get thrown in jail. CS is not the only thing she doesn't pay. CP
In those kinds of situations
In those kinds of situations I totally agree.... a friend of mine was owed well over $15k in back child support from a deadbeat who completely ignored his own children. She scrimped by raising those 3 boys on less than $20k a year. When she finally got her pay-day (after the THIRD trip to court for contempt and this time he was held without bail until ALL back CS was paid) she took part of that money and went on a cruise with her friends. I said good for her... she deserved it!
Amen to that. What pisses
Amen to that. What pisses me off is with my DH, his EX (the BM) has 3 children by 2 other men. One is a deadbeat that owes over $10,000 in CS. He gets paid under the table (so says my DH, but who knows??)
The other father isn't even aware he has a daughter. He knew BM was pregnant, but she caught him screwing around on her, so she left him. She didn't list him on the Birth cert, and wants nothing to do with him. For the longest time, this child was under the impression that my DH was her bio-father until her oldest sister spilled the beans.
Hubby wanted to adopt this child, but the mother refused to let him do this. He was heartbroken when she denied him to keep in contact with this girl after she kicked him out of the house.
So because she's not getting much CS from either father, she takes her grief out on MY hubby expecting him to make up for those 2 guys who aren't paying anything towards their own kids. She even admitted it to him that he should be responsible for her other 3 kids in addition to his own child with her. :jawdrop:
He told her, "Don't lump me in that same category with those 2 guys. *I* pay my child support each and every month unlike THOSE deadbeats." Yet she still expects him to pitch in. Oh yeah, I objected to THAT pipedream of hers.
~*~Cheer up! It could be worse.
I cheered up, & it got worse!~*~
I really doubt people don't
I really doubt people don't pay because of where the money goes - to me they don't pay because they CANNOT AFFORD the amounts!! My DH has been out of work for months now but God forbid BM doesn't have her blood money on schedule!
Neither BM nor SD show any concern, that his entire means of earning a living is now completely GONE!!!!! or even ask him how he is holding up, or about the surgery he had, they just cash the now weekly checks from his unemployment - oh yeah, SD18 loves him all right!!!
We are going to have to ask for a reduction, but I am reading that, even with the entire failed INDUSTRIES, courts are reluctant to ask BMs/children to accept ANY less, REGARDLESS of what it does to the DH, who is allowed under the Geneva Convention to have a house and food too!!!!!!!
And, if he can't pay, he can be thrown in jail but BM doesn't have to pay her own bills - two bankruptcies for her so far!!
I guess only the children are important and 'everything' is for them, and then we wonder why they are so self-centered! Good luck on going to college, there is nothing left!!!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think."
Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)