FDH Almost Gave Our Therapist an Aneurism Last Night

FDH and I met up at therapy last night. We sat down and the counselor asked how everything is going and I launched straight into it. I said “We are having MAJOR issues right now with FDH understanding and implementing proper boundaries with BM and I need to understand why he’s so resistant to end his emotional attachment to her”. The counselor’s eyes widened and she says “FDH! What the hell? STILL??? I thought we covered this and you were going to change.”

The session escalated very quickly.

He said that he tries and that once I explain where he’s gone wrong, he understands it. I explained that this happens a few times a week and those are only the things I know about. And I am sick and tired of it and I don’t want to keep getting hurt and have to keep telling him specifically where he went wrong as he’s missing the bigger picture. I gave her recent examples of this crap including the moving boxes, mother’s day present, lawn equipment, chit-chatting on the phone, her knowing things before I do, him always making excuses for her… it goes on. He tried to tell her that I am blowing everything out of proportion and it’s not what it seems.
I told her how it seems he’s in constant contact with her which he denied. She actually told him to open his phone and hand it over. He was messing around and stalling which she called him out on. “What are you DOING? Deleting stuff??” He finally handed over the phone and I started reading his text messages which ended with me losing it and walking out. It was BAD.

He finally came out after me and convinced me to come back in.

Our counselor who sticks to 40 minute appointments kept us an additional 30 minutes. It became quite clear to her that he’s just not getting this concept. She looked at me at one point with a sympathetic look that said “Oh my, now I see what’s going on here”. You could just see her mind being blown every time he opened his mouth. She laid into him and told him flat out that:
• He’s not getting it (said this many times)
• He clearly doesn’t understand what divorce means
• He’s playing a savior/husband role for BM and that’s completely inappropriate
• He needs to reflect on why it’s so important for him to be the nice guy
• He’s spreading himself too thin trying to please everyone when he should only be concerned about pleasing me.
• He’s still very emotionally tied to his marriage
• He MUST choose which woman he wants in his life because he will not have me if he chooses BM.
• He needs to really sit and think about whether he wants to be alone for the rest of his life with his only relationship being with a woman he is divorced from because NO woman is going to live like this
• His family is now me, him and the kids. BM is no longer his family. He needs to completely change his way of thinking if he wants me around.
• He needs to try to figure out why he’s still holding on to his marriage. Is it because she divorced you and you want to prove her wrong for thinking you’re a bad guy? Do you still love her?
• He needs to understand that if/when he starts implemented the necessary changes here, BM is going to give him a very hard time as she won’t like it one bit and he needs to have a backbone.

It was rather incredible.

I told him that if he doesn’t figure this out, we are done. I told him that starting now; I do not want him going in her house—just take the kids to the door. He needs to eliminate any opportunity to slip back into old communication routines with her. He agreed to that much.

He was assigned homework (this was actually my suggestion that the therapist loved) that he has to make a list of what he thinks the boundaries should be with BM. We will discuss them at the next appointment and I can amend the list. And he will have to live by whatever we decide.

But the best part was that he basically had his ass handed to him and someone else, a professional at that, witnessed what I am dealing with first-hand. She saw it and called him out hard. And validated me.

Last night, long after the session, he asked me to watch a movie with him. I did but didn’t sit near him. When he was going to bed I told him that we wouldn’t be sleeping together for a while. He looked sad but that’s his problem. I need to keep my emotional distance from him. I really finally saw how bad this actually is—worse than I thought to some degree. And the answer could be, in the end, that he’s unwilling to change and simply will never get it. It’s like there is a major block there and he can’t see the forest through the trees. Just when you think he’s got the concept, he opens his mouth and proves he doesn’t. If he isn’t capable of removing that block and finally start to get this, we have to end this. I really hope it’s not the case because in every other respect he is a darling, darling man. So sad.

Anne Boleyn's blog
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WOW! Good for you AB! I hope

WOW! Good for you AB! I hope that ass chewing and the validation from the Therapist that he is DEAD WRONG on ALL counts regarding BM did him some good and made him realize just how close he is to losing you over that dumb bitch!!!!

He's lucky that you are as

He's lucky that you are as understanding as you have been.

I hope he gets it. But if he doesn't you will be better off without him. Could you imagine living 30 years in the shadow of another woman? It's almost as bad as dating a married man.

Or worse yet if many years from now she ends up old and single and decides she wants him back. That happened to my DH - 15 years with his ex wife. Her husband had left her for another woman. When they (her ex and the woman he left her for) divorced 15 years later she ran back to her ex in about 5 minutes.

"Could you imagine living 30

"Could you imagine living 30 years in the shadow of another woman? It's almost as bad as dating a married man." I agree. That's why the line in the sand was finally drawn. There is no way I am going to be "the other woman" in my own legitimate relationship. It's total BS. And it will end one way or the other. I've had it.

I think he's still in love

I think he's still in love with her. Why are you going through all of this with a guy that you're not even married to? If he treats you this bad now, what do you think he's going to do when you are actually married?

If it's this hard NOW, it really isn't worth it. You can't make someone be who you want them to be, or get them to treat you the way you want them to treat you. If he loved you, he wouldn't be doing this to you.

This man is still in love

This man is still in love with his ex-wife.

It doesn't matter how upset you get, how much the therapist agrees with you or even if he understands what he's doing wrong. You can implement all the rules you want. None of that will change what is in his heart.

He can lie to himself and you all he wants, his actions are screaming LOVE.

Not to hijack this thread,

Not to hijack this thread, but since Cheri brought up my blog from earlier I just needed to address a few things. My DH wasn't still emotionally attached to his ex as your FDH appears to be. He clearly had moved on from her and had dated a couple of other women casually before he met me a year after he and BM had split. He bowed down to her out of FEAR that she'd take his daughter and run as she'd threatened him on numerous occasions she would do.

He can't stand the woman and has VERY little contact with her at all. He certainly didn't go into her home to take SD there, doesn't do anything special for her and even though she's asked for favors, he doesn't oblige. The only agreement he had with her post split was that he'd help her financially by paying her Jeep insurance for a year. I did have to remind him that he was under no contractual agreement to continue, it was something verbal and definitely when we'd met, the offer had more than expired in time. He did quit paying for her insurance after we started dating.

I don't have to wonder what my DH thinks about his overall quality of happiness in his life. He shows me every day how happy I make him, how happy he is with his friends, family, our marriage. We get along great, don't argue or fight, and we have a great time together. He is the one who tells ME to concentrate on our future together, because he sees us growing old and being by each other's side for the long haul. His grandparents are in their late 80's and know the whole stepdevil situation and totally agree with the way DH is handling things.

Does he wish he had a relationship with his kid? Of course. Does he wish BM wasn't such a bitch and encouraging his daughter to hate him? Of course. Is he regretful of their lack of parenting the kid? Yep. But as he's told me before, you choose a partner for life. Your kids aren't going to be the ones you grow old with and sit on the porch at age 85 drinking sweet tea with. They all grow up and eventually move on with their lives. If he didn't have me and continued to allow her to be his "mini wife" he'd be alone when she got her own life anyway. He truly says he thinks I was put on this planet for him and we're perfect together.

His daughter choosing to remove herself from her father has little to do with me. Sure, I'm a factor, because in her eyes, I prevented her parents from reconciling, even though that's not the truth. They wouldn't have ever gotten back together even had I never came along. She got irked that dad was actually being a dad and not her best buddy anymore and heaven forbid, he didn't bow down to her every command.

She removed herself from his life also because she has a mother who was constantly telling her how wrong it was for her dad to "replace" her with another woman and to move on and be happy with someone else before BM was ready to do the same.

Entirely different than me coming along, giving my DH some balls that he was lacking and causing his daughter to leave him...the picture Cheri seems to be painting. That's not how it happened and I won't sit by and take full blame for it.

Thanks for the clarification

Thanks for the clarification Cheri and I apologize if I misunderstood your words.

And your observations above seem to be spot-on.

I'm not sure if Anne shares my feelings here but frankly, I could give a rat's ass if DH's ex and his daughter forever blame me for their issues. I don't care about them and I don't care what they think of me.

All I care about is my DH and how HE feels about me. If he were having doubts or issues with the fact that I am his forever and not them, I'd hope he'd have the courage to come to me. He has in the past, so I don't foresee him not being able to come to me about future issues.

Changes definitely don't work when being done for someone else, you're right! He really did want to change and honestly, I don't see Anne's SO wanting the same. DH once told me "I feel so trapped by the two of them. They've been dictating my every decision, my life, my feelings for so long that I don't know how to stand on my own". I felt for him because my ex controlled me as well and it was hard to break free from that. But once I did, I was free and happy and he is too!

Cheri, RWF and Anne, I have

Cheri, RWF and Anne, I have went through the same thing as RWF and Anne. IMO, DH doesn't love BM but WAS still enmeshed emotionally with BM and of course, he was afraid of losing SS.

He an BM were together for 25 years and old habits are hard to break plus he had gotten into a routine of letting BM call the shots.

BM did everything in her power to use SS to gain power over DH because of course, DH wanted to be a good father and felt sorry for SS because of the divorce.

Anne may wonder if her SO still loves BM as I have done numerous times, but I assure you time will tell. DH would argue with me that he didn't see anything wrong with BM coming over to our house, calling all the time, etc, but yet when it came down to me saying "It's me or her" he made the choice AND started making changes. Gradually, but changes none the less.

Just this year, after we had dealt with an issue with BM he made the comment to me "you knew I had a child when you married me". I let him know that "yes, I did and I accept your child for the rest of my life but I thought dealing with BM would stop at some point." "I refuse to live the rest of my life dealing with another woman in your life". "You choose, me or her". "I repeat I WILL NOT deal with her the rest of my life." "So let me know right NOW if you expect that because I will pack my things this MOMENT and not look back!" DH looked at me and knew I meant business and did not say one word. This has been going on for 4+ years and I am tired of it. SS will graduate next year so DH knows I mean business. I have warned him in advance there has to be an END in sight.

I do think Cheri is right about 2 things. DH's cause this mess by allowing BM's to call all the shots and acting like the happy family to the kids or "for the sake of the kids" garbage. Because as Cheri said the kids cannot take it when someone moves into that territory. They know that the REAL person that made this "happy family" image stop was SM. WE can turn it any way we want but in reality WE the SP's are the real reason. DH didn't stop it, he continued playing along and of course neither did Skid or BM.

Secondly, I think our DH's do sort of resent the fact that when we come along the kids pull back and won't have anything to do with them. I have seen this in my DH. He doesn't have to say it but I feel it. It makes him sad. I know he loves me and wants to be with me but I think he knows if I hadn't come along, SS (and BM) would still be in his life.

I don't think he really cares about BM but he knows BM would and did PAS him out to the kid. So now he sees SS less and less and now his "happy family" image is spoiled because SS will hardly sit and have a meal when I am included must less anything else. So again, I can say whatever I want to make me feel better but I know in my heart, that DH would not have changed one thing if I hadn't came along to change it.

In your case, did the skid

In your case, did the skid pull away from his father after he started putting down bounadries with the BM or just because you were there?

Anne, I think it was both.

Anne, I think it was both. It seemed like when we started putting down boundaries for BM we started having more issues with SS. I think that is when BM started PAS'ing DH out and in turn SS started having issues with me.

Eventually, SS got to the point he wrote emails to DH telling DH he was a bad father, that he had picked me over SS, that SS didn't care what I thought or DH either, and of course, calling me names, etc.

SS made it very clear that he blames me for the boundaries on BM and for DH taking action about some things SS was bringing into our house, discipline, etc.

The funny part about this is

The funny part about this is that FDH had been split from her for 5 years and divorced for 4 when I met him. He'd had two girlfriends before me. I never in a million years thought that this would be an issue.

No BM is not remarried.

No BM is not remarried. However, she does have a serious boyfriend now that she had planned to move in with shortly. That relationship seems to be falling apart.

They have not attempted to reconcile.

You are right about what he's revealing.

The hard part with him is that he's lovely in so many ways. He is incredibly sweet, does really nice things for me, is very affectionate, cooks almost every meal, wakes me up every morning with a cold Diet Coke in a coozie next to me (that's my coffee), practically waits on me,is warm, personable, funny, smart. We get along perfectly when she is not involved. He's recently worked hard to correct the issues with the skids and has been quite successful. We live together and have a very nice life, group of friends, and basically have a blast just being together. And then there is THIS.

And he really thinks he's trying. But like you said, he's not trying that hard if he's going behind my back to feed her dog, etc... It's just insane.

The therapist thinks that he's just been playing the same role for 20+ years and that role should've ended when they divorced but it didn't. And now he is tasked to figure out why he never emotionally divorced from her as well.

We've lived together for a

We've lived together for a year and just moved to a different house.

I think her relationship is ending because her man is finally seeing what a mess this situation is. I mean, who would want to have someone move in who has major financial problems, can't keep a job, one kid with major issues and isn't in school and he's probably onto the emotional BS going on with her ex (FDH).

The funny part about this is

^^^ Anne, that makes it worse (for you) because their disfunctional pattern had been going on for 5 YEARS before you came along. (My DH - 2+ YEARS)

The GF's were obviously not serious or they would have put a stop to it too. Come to think of it maybe the GF's seen it and RAN!!!

I agree. This behavior is so

I agree. This behavior is so entrenched from pre and post divorce.

I've wondered about those girlfriends too. I am pretty sure the first one wanted to have kids and he didn't want anymore so she took off and married someone who did. We saw her a few months ago walking on the beach with one of those new kids. Good for her, BTW.

The second one... I very much suspect that she got tired of this crap too. And she had 3 young kids of her own that didn't get along well with FDH's kids. They dated two years but because of her kids they really only saw each other when they both had no kids. So she probably doesn't dealing with this on a day-to-day basis as I am.

I tell everyone that I know

I tell everyone that I know going through a divorce that acting the happy family for the sake of the child is the worse thing you could do for the child and for your future!

I printed an article for FDH

I printed an article for FDH last night that specifically talked about the impact to the kids when the "one big happy family" thing continues. It gives them false hope for reconciliation, even if one or both former spouses have new SOs. I've found with him that if I can explain to him how he's hurting his children with his behavior (not parenting, playing Disney Dad, hurting the otehr kids by allowing horrible bheavior in one kid,etc...) it's been really effective in helping him change his behavior. I hope reading that article opens his eyes on this topic similarly. It was called "Divorced: But Still Married" Perfet title.

I've found with him that if I

I've found with him that if I can explain to him how he's hurting his children with his behavior (not parenting, playing Disney Dad, hurting the other kids by allowing horrible bheavior in one kid,etc...) it's been really effective in helping him change his behavior.

^^^^ Same with my DH even thou sometimes BM will pull the "I'm the mother and I know what's best" card. But almost always I can find evidence that her way is not the best for SS.

I am looking up that article!

I could not trust him

I could not trust him concerning his ex wife until HE chose to do so.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I agree. I also don't' think your DH is as clueless and he tries to make you think. Unless your DH is too dumb to put on pants...he is not to dumb to understand your boundaries without being told over and over and over. He is pulling the wool over your eyes and trying to make you think he is "clueless" and an idiot Mark my words...he knows your issues...he just does not care. Sorry

This made me smile!! Yeah!!!

This made me smile!! Yeah!!! Love, love, love your therapist!!

I just want to say that in my

I just want to say that in my opinion he knows. The fact that he was hesitant to hand over his phone AND trying to delete crap before showing it...to me, that says he KNOWS what he is doing is wrong.

He's not over his previous marriage. Emotionally anyway. SMH

I think it's a combo of those

I think it's a combo of those two. He has emotional ties to her that he doesn't even realize. He swears up and down he's not attracted to her, doesn't want to be with her, doesn't love her. But he is missing the fact that there are still deep ties there on some level and he doesn't recognize that. AND he doesn't want her upset with him because he fears the impact to the kids. He says over and over and over that he "is just trying to be cordial and maintain a good relationship with the mother of his children for their sake". He doesn't see where he's crossing the line from cordial to emotionally enmeshed.

She normally initiates contact. But he does things like text to tell her that grades are posted online. I pointed out that she is the custodial parent and should know that and he shouldn't be helping her mother her kids. Therapist agreed.

I agree. It should be crystal

I agree. It should be crystal clear to him now that I won't put up with it anymore. So we'll see how this plays out. All I can control is what I do and how I react. But it certainly will not involve me putting up with this crap. I do not need a man. I want one that I treat with love and respect and vice versa.

Thank you. The text messages

Thank you.

The text messages weren't lovey dovey or anything. They just broke every boundary we'd recently discussed like not giving too much information/sharing info about our lives that she doesn't need to know, being in touch too often for no solid reason, etc... They were all about the kids which is where it gets sticky. But as I said, they can twist anything they want into being about the kids.

I agree wholly on pulling back some. I have to protect myself. And he needs to do some long hard thinking about this. This dynamic cannot stay the same.

I just remembered the text

I just remembered the text that sent me over the edge. It said "I am here to feed the dog". We've had so many arguments over him doing shit like that for her, and many specifically related to feeding her dog for her. He KNEW that was a problem yet he did it anyway. So now that I think about it, he's full of it when he says he can follow the rules if he knows specifically what they are.

That's not it. He's great to

That's not it. He's great to my dog and cats. He feeds them most mornings before I even get up.

She lives 30 minutes from here. Her BF lives 20 minutes in a different direction. She stays at
her BF's house on our kid weekends. I guess he doesn't want her bringing her obnoxious dog to his house anymore. So whenever she can, she tries to get FDH to stop by and feed the dog if he's near her house. Last time we had the kids he had to take SD14 to play practice at her school which is 2 miles from BM's. He apparently was asked via SD via BM to do it and he did.

He knows full well that I have a MAJOR issue with this specifically. He's not her man, he's not her BFF, he doesn't need to be feeding her dog or doing any other favors for her. One time I even said "You realize you're taking care of her stuff for her while she's over her BF's getting f'd, right? Have some self respect."

He told me he wouldn't do it anymore. And guess who just got busted. His response "Well, SD asked me". Argh

But the dog issue is even bigger. When she got the dog, before I met him, he agreed to take the dog on his kid weekends. When I met him, I lived an hour away and would stay at his house a lot. The dog was there every other weekend. I actually had no problem with it other than the dog is loud and annoying, but sweet.

When we moved in together, it became a problem. The dog was not used to cats and was terrorizing my elderly cats. So then a major battle over this dog began. I told him that she was no longer able to come over. BM went nuts. One time she even brought the dog to a drop off point with the kids and put the dog in his car. After that, I told him that if that dog showed up one more time, I was leaving him. BM kept teling him that he's a terrible person, etc... It was bad.

Eventually, it the issue died for the most part as I would not relent and no more dog. Except then I went to pick up the skids one time and he had the nerve to text me to ask ME to feed her dog. I lost it. And then I found out he was doing this from time-to-time and told him it had better stop. And here we are now. The dog is simply a symptom of the problems that 1- he can't say no to her 2- he thinks anything in her house is his responsibility 3- this counts to him as "just being cordial"

I agree with you about

I agree with you about pulling back some. Let the therapist be the "heavy". You do have to protect yourself in this regard.

I'm sorry I don't have any grandioso words of wisdom. And I'm sorry to hijack your thread earlier. Just had to address what I was being told was my situation when it wasn't necessarily that.

I hope things get better for you and you know I'm always here for you ok?

No worries. Thank you. I

No worries. Thank you. I appreciate you.

The reason I suggested that

The reason I suggested that HE make the list is because it will be painfully obvious how far off the mark he truly is. I really think it will be quite revealing in that we all know this is an issue about emotional attachment and not about the rules. This list is ultimately really an excerise in watching him demonstrate what a mess he is emotionally.

^^^^^^^^ I concur

^^^^^^^^ I concur ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thanks for the book

Thanks for the book suggestion. I have told him (not that long ago) that he needs individual counseling. We've even talked about why he is so conflict-avoidant. His father was bi-polar which caused huge issues but he was sweet as pie. The mother was raised in a very cold family. She had to pick up the slack from the dad financially and was very resentful so there was a LOT of conflict growing up. He hated it so he avoids it. He married someone very much like his mother- cold, domineering, smart. He also spent most of his young life in boarding school. So he has no real clue how a normal relationship/family is supposed to operate.

I agree with everything you

I agree with everything you are saying.

Related to the specifics of BM boundaries, that is exactly what I said to him yesterday. The therapist told him that if he must speak to her on the phone, he can only do it when I am in the room.

This is every bit of an emotional affair.

What restrictions? I don't

What restrictions? I don't contact my exes. It's a perfectly normal way to live you life to keep your ex at arm's length-- cordial but business-like.

I would agree with you

I would agree with you normally. The point the therapist was making about this is that if his calls are so innocent and strictly related to the kids, he should have no problem making those calls in front of me. If you have nothing to hide, you are an open book. So, let's see how open he can be.

I haven't had a chance yet to respond to your comment about having the desire to change. I've been thinking about that one since I read it. You are very right. People have to want to change in order for changes to stick. This is exactly why I told him and the therapist that I refuse to have this discussion each and every time. He needs to get it and change it on his own. I am tired of this policewoman role.

Your Coke analogy made me think of when I quit smoking. I was in HUGE denial that what I was doing was really hurting me. Most smokers are. Even after you develop the cough and wake up feeling like a tractor is on your chest every morning, you still convince yourself that it's not really that bad. Denial is a very intersting thing. FDH is in denial about his emotional connection with BM. He thinks what he's doing is fine and he's "just being cordial for the kids". We all know that's not the case. Until he got banged over the head with a two-by-four last night, he had convinced himself that I was the one who had the problem and was blowing everything out of proportion. That belief allows him to continue even though he knows deep down it's hurting not just me, but his own future and that of his kids. In my case, it wasn't until a doctor literally beat me over the head with lung function test results that I snapped awake and made the change on my own. It took him opening my eyes in a real way. Hopefully, he'll have his Come to Jesus moment about this and his relationship with BM. If not, he's going to be a lonely man.

And as I said in another comment, I really think that him making this list of boundaries is simply going to be an excercise in making it painfully obvious that he's not even close to "getting it".

woot woot! go

woot woot! go therapist!!!

but onto the dog feeding...bad sign. he knew exactly what he wasn't supposed to do and did it anyway behind your back. no good.

my husband was 2 months divorced from his ex when we met. he had a lot of confusion and it took him some time. about 8 months in we took a break for him to figure out if he was done with her or not. it took him a week to decide he didn't want her and then another 6 months to get the balls to really start setting down boundaries and breaking the emotional ties.

and even 4 years in we still have issues. but nothing like that first year.

it takes time!

for him it was a combination of figuring out how not to be married to her anymore, he was emotionally connected to her out of habit more than desire, and fear of losing his kids and not having any idea how to be an every other weekend dad. that last one was really really hard for him to accept.

but once he fully accepted his life and realized he'd lose me if he didn't make some changes then he did. and even though it took time to get to the place we are now, he made considerable progress along the way.

if you notice that he makes a lot of progress after this and doesn't go backwards then you've got a man worth keeping. but if he does stuff that he KNOWS is hurtful and disrespectful to you then i can't advise staying with him.

I would have ended it so many

I would have ended it so many times. He doesn't know what the hell he wants. Good for the therapist and you for finally taking a stand.

It feels so great when the therapist looks at our SO's and tells them they are wrong....I savor that memory from our session.

Maybe he tried to get away

Maybe he tried to get away with it before and is only now realizing he can't. Hopefully he cuts it out and commits fully to you otherwise I'm sure you'll leave and he'll be left to start over yet again.

I think you need to call him out in the therapist's office and tell him that you aren't stupid and he needs to stop treating you like you are. You know he is pretending to "not get it" or to be oblivious but he's not that socially inept. Guys pretend to be stupid so they don't get in trouble for being insubordinate and defiant. He knows what treating someone like a girlfriend/wife is like and what he would never do for a friend or stranger. I'm sure he'd know exactly what those lines were if you were to have a male friend or an ex.

There's a difference between not knowing something was wrong and hoping it wouldn't be a problem. He needs to use the right words.

Actually, it's funny that you

Actually, it's funny that you said that. Last night his defence on the moving box issue was that he would do it for a friend. The therapist and I, at the same exact time, said "BUT SHE'S NOT YOUR FRIEND". The therapist went on to explain why something you'd do for a friend should not be done for your ex because it confuses roles and causes these sorts of problems.

All i can say is that seperately, the therapist and I, have told him he needs to decide if he wants her in his life or me. I've said my piece. So did the therapist. He got a HUGE wake up call last night when he was told that I am blowing nothing out of proportion and he's just plain wrong. So he needs to figure this out. Or I am out. It's really that simple.

Bullshit he would. His female

Bullshit he would. His female friend probably has a man who can help her his own damn self. If she doesn't then she can ask a group of friends to help and not just one special guy. If it was his male friend that's different, but guess what she isn't a man.

He would have a fit if another man tried to take his role and help you out and be there for you in the way your partner should be.

Either way though, it's true - she isn't his friend.

She wants us to agree on what

She wants us to agree on what is appropriate. But we all know we are far apart in our thinking about what is appropriate.

Does he have other signs of

Does he have other signs of co-dependence? I think people who are tend to have a hard time forming appropriate boundaries.

Either way, it is not your job to fix him. He needs to fix himself. But he will only do that if he truly believes there is something wrong with how he acts.

I am very glad, Anne, that you are standing strong and pulling back emotionally. There is no reason for love to hurt that much.

I just remembered another

I just remembered another line from the therapist last night that I figured some of you would love "FDH, just because Anne came second, it doesn't mean she should be in second place in your life. She needs to be FIRST".

I said that last night in

I said that last night in counseling too. I said "This is pretty basic. Whenever you get the urge to do ANYTHING related to BM, you need to think to yourself 'How would I feel if Anne was doing this with/for another man? I can tell you right now that we would've been broken up on month 2 if roles were reversed. There is no way in hell you'd put up with this so why should I?'" His eyes flickered a moment of understanding. It's a pretty simple way of looking at it.

I have a son who is 22 and

I have a son who is 22 and lives an hour away. But I raised him alone so he tries that "Well, you were never married to his dad" route. I turn it on him though. For example, last night I pointed out that my son never had someone to purchase gifts and remind him of my b-day and Mother's Day but he managed to make it happen for me. Seriously, how can you argue with that?!

((((((((((( Hugs ))))))))))))))

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FDH Almost Gave Our Therapist an Aneurism Last Night

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