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Weddings

dessy101's picture

Just thought to add this. SS is getting married. I have known SKs from since they were 3 and 5; came over every weekend. DH and I have 3 together 2 DDs and 1 DS. Anyway, SS wanted to take DH and DS to coffee to tell them that DS will not be a groomsman but an usher. He says that his two best friends that he knew from preschool will be. Bride has two sisters which will be bridesmaids. They want 2 on each side. He wanted them to know before hand. He says that he was a groomsman in the BFFs weddings. One is engaged and getting married next year. Also to justify he says that he is closer to BFFs and are closer in age and can do more adult stuff. (Plus the BFFs go on vacation every year.) DS is 17. DDs are not in the wedding, but are invited. I think my DS was snubbed and I am upset. Why couldn't they have uneven bridal party or one of the BFFs be an usher. 

To top that I just found out that DH was given the option to either sit in the front pews and top table or sit with me on the fiffth row and a regular table. Apparently there is an ettiquette that mothers family sit in the first few rows then fathers family. DH asked why couldn't we all sit in the front pew and top table (since we all get along for the most part) was told that they are being fair because DH can sit with his wife and some people would have him sit elsewhere. Also my parents who have given christmas and birthday gifts to SKs over the years are not invited. These people aren't poor and are having 250-300 guest. When DH asked about it he was told that they maxed out there guest list and would not be able to add more. DH and I are quite upset and he told me I get to choose what happens. Whether we or DKs go. Would you guys go, take the kids, DH alone go? If we go should DH sit on the first pew and top table or with me?

STaround's picture

I can see why your SS does not want his half brother to be a groonsman, there is a bit of an age difference.  Having a groomsan under 21 can present problems for bachelor party. 

Tradiitonal etiquette is that the parent who primarily raised the bride or groom (usually but not always the mother) gets dibs on front row.   You may think you get along well, but people may just be polite.

Is your DH paying a significant part of the wedding? 

I think you guys should all go and sit together.  I dont think staying home will make the relationship with stepkids and  your kids any better.  

dessy101's picture

SS isn't the type to have strippers, he is very classy and polished he doesn't even drink because it is bad for his health. SS is 24, and he and DS get on well. Even so, he could not be at the bachelor party if he doesn't want him too and still be at the alter and fittinggs. DH isn't paying anything towards the wedding, SS and FSDIL are paying. 

They want BM with male cousin as escort, BM parents and BM sister and DH on the front row. Behind them is cousins then aunt's DH parents, siblings and spouces and children. Then DH and I with DKs and IN Laws. I do not think the aunts DH relatives should sit before us. Or is that really ettiquette.

STaround's picture

If you keep nitpicking SS decisions, you will only aggravate him.

Are you arguing 3rd row v. 5th?  Let it go

TimeToGo's picture

Etiquette is BM & fam get 1st row, BD & fam get 2nd row. So yes, you should be seated directly behind BM but not multiple rows back!

ldvilen's picture

Ah, Stepmother wedding etiquette or “wedding etiquette” in general. . . BS.  Wedding etiquette used to say only married or engaged couples were to be invited, bride was to wear white (to appear moreso virginal), guests of the bride were supposed to be on one side, while the groom’s guests on the other, and so on.  Right up there with other now-seen-as-very old-fashioned etiquette like a woman is supposed to always walk on a man’s right.

Well, of course nowadays dating couples are invited to weddings all the time, brides can wear red or even black as a gown, if they so choose, true virgin brides are quickly becoming endangered species, and it is not uncommon for wedding guests, family and friends to sit wherever, and I know I certainly never have ever paid attention to which side I’m walking on with my DH.

Yet, for some !@#$!@ reason, these archaic medieval step-mother wedding etiquette “rules” seem to ever-persist.  In reality, there is no such thing at all as overall, 100% done-deal wedding etiquette rules.  People getting married, wedding planners, clergy, all pick and choose which ones they want to abide by, and then throw those out to all as being some sort of “rule” that has to followed!!  My God!  Is the planet going to stop spinning because dad and his wife along with BM (and her BF or spouse, perhaps) all sit in the front row!?

I can’t help but think that the real reason why these BM up front with her hew husband, dad in row #3 or whatever with his new spouse, or BM and bio-dad up front, while SM has to sit way in the back and so on type rules exist is that both BM and step-kids don’t really want to face reality.  So, since they are usually the ones controlling the funds or how the money is spent, it comes down to, “Let’s dig deep in the history books or make up a rule to find one in order to treat SM like shiatsu, and in the meantime, that'll also serve the purpose of letting dad know he is the lesser parent too.”  That is really all it comes down to sometimes, I swear. 

So, there is really absolutely no reason whatsoever for you and your husband to be in row #5; or, if your
DH really wants to sit up front or next to his daughter, he has to somehow nix you.  Just stupid.  What a way for an engaged couple to treat another married couple or long-term SOs.  I find it hard to believe, for example, that no one would have a problem with full-sibling and her boyfriend of 3-months sitting together up front, perhaps in the front row no-less, but bio-dad and his wife (SM) of 10+ years, no way!  Now how hypocritical is that!?

BEST ADVICE if you are a SM invited to a “family” wedding:  Either go playing the flaming 2nd wife to the max., being by your husband’s side (as any other married couple gets to do).  Go looking like Sophia Vergara in a red dress.  Or, sit the whole thing out, and instead plan a spa day, the day of the wedding, and hang out with your friends and other people who really care about you.

ndc's picture

I don't think this is something you should get bent out of shape about.  Your SS is free to choose his groomsmen - he is not required to choose brothers or relatives.  He is closer to his friends than he is to his half brother.  He was considerate enough to take your DH and DS out to explain it to them.  I have no issue with his choice.  I have two sisters (full sisters) and I had two bridesmaids at my wedding.  Both were my friends, not my sisters.  I'm closer to my friends than I am to my sisters, and I only wanted two attendants.  I gave my sisters other roles in the wedding and they were fine with it.  As for the seating - sit with your husband in the fifth row and at a regular table.  In the long run it really doesn't matter where you sit.  Probably some of that is beyond your SS's control and is being dictated by the bride and her family.  Is your husband paying for or contributing to the wedding?  If so, he should have a bit more say in stuff like that.  If not, he should choose to sit with you and not make a fuss.  As for your parents - well, again, if your DH is paying for a chunk of the wedding he might want to push to have them invited.  If not, face the fact that they're not family to your SS and they didn't make the list.  Buying Christmas and birthday presents over the years doesn't buy you a seat at the wedding reception.

Compared to some of the stories we hear on here where the SM isn't even invited, this isn't a big deal.  If I were you, I would not make it one.  It will only harm the relationship going forward.

Sandybeaches's picture

 "If I were you, I would not make it one.  It will only harm the relationship going forward."

I would say that ship has already sailed.  Just by the way OP is being treated, I would say that has already damaged the relationship she thought she had with SS and the entire family. Not to mention DH's relationship with SS too!! 

I don't think that OP was saying that Christmas and birthday gifts bought her parents a seat at a wedding I believe she was describing what she thought the relationship her parents had with SS.  I think they are all going WAY out of their way to show OP that she isn't a part of the family and neither are her parents.  They are being very rude! 

How awful to make DH pick between sitting in the first row to see the wedding and sitting with his wife and other children.  I don't care who is paying for the wedding treating either of your parents that way is ever lasting no matter what anyone says.  That damages relationships and what purpose does it serve? Why can't dad and wife sit together in row with BM or Dad and wife in second row.  Why does he have to sit so far back with so many people in between???  I tell you why so that BM can prove a point that SM is insignificant and doesn't belong!  Why don't we just put her in the overflow room in the basement to watch it on TV with the crying babies!! 

dessy101's picture

Apparently it is more important to SS that BM parents sit in the front than myself and DH. Apparently it is ettiquette in divorce situations for SM and BF to be seated after BM family. They always send my parents cards for christmas to the very last december. This is why I am surprised by this. We also got along with BM for the most part too.

TimeToGo's picture

It is only "etiquette" to seat BM's family behind BM, in front of BD & family if there is tension between BM & BD. Basically to prevent fights.

Stress the seating, BD & you get 2nd row. Make your displeasure re: your parents not receiving an invitation known & then let it go. Forego anything being said about your 17 year old CHILD. He's simply a CHILD, in this case & definitely a CHILD who is too old to be the ring bearer & should be honored & show his maturity while accepting the position of usher & while executing the role. Finally, your SS is showing maturity & care for his brother's feelings by wanting to address this, ahead of time.

Not your wedding, be prepared to let things go.

Sandybeaches's picture

I am sorry you are going through this and I can tell you I have been there and done that and I will tell my story later as I am off to work in a few minutes but I want to respond on the etiquette thing. 

I get what "Emily Post" says which I want to point out was created before 50-75% of marriages ended in divorce and some parents were never married at all.  This is not about etiquette!!! Those are old tired ideas when no one knew how it should be handled and quite frankly were rude and unrealistic and written by someone who I imagine had never been through divorce.  These relationships are hard enough to navigate without someone grabbing some ridiculous tired old information from a very old etiquette book!!! It is totally ridiculous for anyone to think that it is ok to ask married people to sit apart at a wedding.  Or ask a father and step mother to sit in the 5th row!!  It's high time to stop following this nonsense!!  

Let's talk about what is really being said in these situations!!  No one has to follow any of these "etiquette"  choices unless that is what they really want!!  Would they ask any one of their other guests that are married to sit apart NO so why one of their parents.  It is all wrong and nonsense!! 

Harry's picture

Yes you are being told you and your family is not wanted. Nothing you can do about DS.  If you are paying a good amount towards the wedding DH should have a say in the seating.  If you are not paying not much you can do.  If BM is paying she is displeased in you not paying. 

dessy101's picture

It is not just that, SKs have a habbit of being "fair" in a way that excludes us. For example the bridal shower, I and DDs were invited we weren't included in pictures that went on social media. They had formal pictures taken as well, DDs and I weren't in any. They had slideshow playing of them as kids and so on, pictures of friends, relatives and even co-workers with them got shown none with me in them. At least two had DKs in them. SD was the one that did the slide show with FSDIL sisters. SD sat at a table with FSDIL, her sisters and DDs weren't at the table. I met her mom for the first time at the shower, she wasn't unpleasant but she was not inviting. She and SS seem close though she called him her son at the shower. DH and I did not even meet the bride untill they were engaged. They had been dating since they were 15. We did not even know he had a girlfriend.

STaround's picture

It does not seem like you were that close.  Go or dont go the wedding, but I supect it wll mean more to your kids than him

dessy101's picture

They came every weekend untill they were 16. After that they chose when to come because of jobs and friends. I think DH was aware he had a girlfriend. but not a serious one. He wouldn't talk about girls with us anyway he talked to the BM father about those stuff.

dessy101's picture

BM doesn't have a SO, she is married to her career. DH does feel like a lesser parent than her. BM father and BIL behave like DH is abscent in their relationship with SKs and it shows. DH can't even have a whole day with them on Father's Day because Grandpa needs recognotion too.

dessy101's picture

BM makes significantly more than DH did. She is rich. So DH did not have CS and she had alimony. SKs came every weekend as ordered, so we were involved. 

dessy101's picture

She paid him alimony, I think BM father never liked DH as a person thought he was unambitious for his DD.The divorce took a long time because she was trying to keep all the "her" money instead of splitting down the middle.

ldvilen's picture

Hate to say this, but this is all typical BM is a Saint, bio-dad is a dead-beat dad type stuff that goes on.  And, if you are married to dead-beat dad, well. . . then of course you are even lesser than dead-beat.  And any children of dead-beat dad and his lesser wife, well. . . !

This scenario is played out over and over in our society every day, in one way or another.  Nothing will change overnight, that's for sure.  I'm not saying that single-working mothers or even the BM in this case don't deserve some kind of recognition, but I am saying that many a times dad's contributions and especially SM's are highly mitigated.  Most dads contribute significant $$ for child support, for example, yet many act like BM is the only one financially supporting the family.  SM cooks, cleans, purchases gifts, taxis, may even contribute to school funds, and so on.  AND, yes, some of her own family members, such as her mom and dad may too.  All of this can be pushed to the back quite easily, and not even remotely be recognized as contributing to a step-child's well-being or finances.

 All taken for granted and then some, because dad can't toot his own horn the way BM does.  This, unfortunately, is step-reality for a lot of us.  I'm not sure what you'll do for the wedding, but whatever you choose, after mull this over and make some decisions regarding how involved you want to continue to be with them, especially financially.  Tell your parents to make their own decisions about this too.  No one wants to give and give and give and get very little or even treated rudely in return.  Yet, for some very inane reason, people have this expectations all the time of SPs.  Like someone said above, Christmas gifts don't equal a seat.  What they really mean is that when it comes to SKs, you and yours can do and do for them, and yet at the end of the day, you can wind up being thought of and treated as little more than trailer trash.  Don't underestimate how even adult children can be nice on the outside but truly vindictive on the inside and carry most if not all of the divorce resentment on to dad, and especially his wife, EVEN IF BM was technically at the root of the divorce.

dessy101's picture

I agree, the teen years were the worst. SS actually changed his last name to BM at 18 because DH and SS had a falling out. They worked through it and are on speaking terms again but that fall out definitely change their relationship. He has yet to change it back, doubt he will.

jam's picture

In my honest opinion, BM had influence on on the name change, although it may be covertly hidden. 

Rags's picture

smh

Bye

sandye21's picture

I agree with Idvilen, "Stepmother wedding etiquette or “wedding etiquette” in general. . . BS."  Giving BM and her husband an honored seat in the first row and shoving SM to the fifth row is a blatant demonstration of disrespect for DH - and especially SM. By all rights, BM's husband should be sitting in another row also.  The same with seating at the reception.  DH should inform them that he will sit in the first row with SM or he and SM will not attend.  Period. 

As far as DS and DD's being part of the wedding, it should be the decision of the Bride and Groom, and family members should not be offended if the Groom prefers to have his best friend as his best man.

sandye21's picture

Are you insinuating that I am rude?  I think it is MORE rude to seat the SM in the fifth row.  If DH is paying for this wedding he has a right to sit in the fist row - with SM.  Or let BM pay for the entire wedding.

dessy101's picture

SS and FSDIL are paying for the wedding on their own. But I still think we can all sit together, we get along for the most part.

ldvilen's picture

Doesn't matter who pays.  The relationship matters at weddings.  No other married seated couple will be seated apart at a wedding. No one would even think of it.  Yet, here, no one thinks much at all of seperating or possibly seperating a husband (dad) from his wife (SM).

I don't think getting married is a license to get your way.  If the bride and groom planned a nudist wedding, for example, and expected everyone invited to strip for their big day without any question, who would be the rude ones here?  The bride and groom for expecting their 80-YO grandparents to just up and strip for 'em, or would it be the grandparents for not doing so?  A lot of husbands, dads or not, would look at someone even thinking of seperating them from their wife at an event just as rudely.

Hmm. . . for some reason I'm thinking most millennials would say that the 80-YO grandparents are ruder for not being willing to strip for their grandkids.  

dessy101's picture

Thats the choice they gave us, DH and I 5th row or DH in 1st row and SM in 5th. Even DKs aren't sitting with SD, DKs sit in 5th row too. SD is going to be the MC at the reception and DDs are going to be just invited.

dessy101's picture

The problem is this can set a stage for SD wedding. When DH walks her down would he walk back 5 rows to be seated too? It is ridiculous. But I guess you think she could choose someone else to walk her down like BM father

dessy101's picture

That is what I am saying but what is done for SS is what is done for SD; graduations and such have proven that. Therefore if he is in 5th row for SS he will be for SD.

ldvilen's picture

You're missing the point.  Dad should have never been insulted by anyone suggesting that he sit seperately from his wife, for one thing.  Here was basically the option given to dad:  "Dad, you can either sit with your lesser wife in the back, row 5, and off to a side table at the reception; or, you can sit up with BM and 86 your lesser wife, pretend she doesn't exist, and you and mom can pretend it is the good ol' days for me."

That is the point.  The point isn't that the groom is being oh-so gracious for even giving dad the chance to sit with his wife, if he so chooses, so long as it is in the back and out of the way somewhere.

dessy101's picture

In fact it did not happen like that. DH and I were relegated to 5th row. DH was upset and asked why and was given the options.

STaround's picture

"we" paid?? out of the alimony she paid him? 

dessy101's picture

That is exactly the attitude of BM's family. I have no problem with alimony if it is fair. Trust me that alimony money is not still funding our household. 

tog redux's picture

Wait a minute - aren't you the one who is always screaming that you can't tell a woman how to spend child support? Oh, but you can tell a man how to spend alimony.

 

STaround's picture

The parent who was the primary custodial parent is enitled to dibs on front row.   She may resent the alimony/property settlement and yet be willing to allow the actual parent to sit in "her" row, but not extend that to you.

If the seating is so important to you, then stay home.   Encourage your DH and your kids to stay home.  

tog redux's picture

You have got to be kidding me. Now custody extends to where you sit at the wedding? And BM gets to carry her resentment into the church and push out the SM? If a stepmother said that about BM not sitting up front because the father had primary custody and paid alimony, you'd be screaming bloody murder that the stepmother was "biased". 

dessy101's picture

Its not so much about the 1st row. It is being relegated to the 5th row after all BM's family. I wouldn't mind second or even third.

STaround's picture

The parent who was the primary custodial parent (usually, but not always the mom) gets Dibs on the front row.  I do think that the money issues could cause strained feelings between the mother, her family and the dad.  While they may feel obligated to include the dad, they may not feel they have to extend preferential seating to his family.

To compaln about seating is rude. 

tog redux's picture

That is absurd. Why would the primary custody parent get dibs on the front row?

ETA: Just goes to show how little you think of fathers. "They feel obligated to include the dad"? Like he's the uncle no one has seen for 10 years? He's the kid's FATHER.

tog redux's picture

OMG - it's the child's FATHER. Doesn't that count for more than who paid for what? Apparently not, in your transactional universe. 

"I don't care if he shares your DNA, don't be flouncing in for photo ops, sir - I paid more for his upbringing than you did." 

WTF?

ldvilen's picture

Well, there you go.  BM gets "honored" seating and dad, well. . . he's just a deadbeat dad.  Like I said above, anything bio-dad does or especially SM does is highly mitigated or "conveniently" forgotten.  

tog redux's picture

Seriously. They felt "obligated" to include the man who helped create and raise the person getting married. 

dessy101's picture

Yes definitely got that SD was Valedictorian in high school. During her speech BM was the real hero always challenging her and instilling the importance of being rounded according to her speech. SM not mentioned, DH lightly mentioned (always being there to give her big speeches when she needed a good talking to) even SS (for leading the example in there siblinghood) mentioned but not DKs. They are half siblings by the way. 

fourbrats's picture

was Valedictorian and she didn't mention any of her siblings and she is very close to all four. In fact middle DD is moving into oldest DD's apartment as we speak. DD mentioned her dad, briefly her SM, me and then DH because DH did all of her math homework with her. And then she mentioned my mom because well, my mom is basically super Grandma. She has several other sets of grandparents who she loves but were not instrumental in her success. I doubt your SD's younger siblings were instrumental is her graduating as the Valedictorian. 

After reading all of your responses I think you have somewhat unrealistic expectations when it comes to your step kids. Their grandparents were instrumental in their successes. Their mom did raise them the majority of the time and was the one there for all of those school events and such. It doesn't sound like your husband did a lot of that and that between him not really being there and then the reason for the divorce the kids are simply not as close with him as they are their mom. They love their siblings and your son is included in a significant way. When your SD gets married she will likely include your daughters. Typically the groom doesn't have a say in the bride's wedding party and the bride doesn't know your girls so expecting them to be included isn't really reasonable. 

And the church is long and narrow so really the 5th row is the second row in a normal sized venue. 

dessy101's picture

DH and I went to school plays, sports events, did weekend homework and projects for school. DH volunteered at SKs school for field trips as well. DH would go every year to their first day of school and last day of school. If some of BM rather extended familly were pushed back we could at least be in the 3rd row after his aunt and uncle and their kids.

fourbrats's picture

calmly suggest that to his son? 

It's good that your husband did those things with the kids. Your previous comments made it sound like he was a weekend dad only. 

Honestly I would go and enjoy the wedding. I would let go of the stuff involving graduation and with your daughters not being in the wedding. Your son was given a significant and age appropriate role as an usher. The bride doesn't know your girls very well so it's hard to say they should have a role. 

ldvilen's picture

You are making a lot of assumptions here to "prove" your point.  For one thing, a Valedictorian speech does not equate to a wedding.  And, why would anyone assume 5th row is really the 2nd row in a normal size venue.  Do you go to/ attend her church?

ldvilen's picture

Oh, please!  You mean SKs are damned by BM, if they are polite to SM and their bio-dad?  That I agree with.  

TimeToGo's picture

Emily Post says 5th row is good, if there is conflict/tension. The more I'm reading, I think that BM & BD may be fine but it definitely sounds like SM has a chip on her shoulder/grudge with BM.

And no, every other weekend, as ordered, no clue about the girlfriend, didn't even meet her for Prom, etc, dated for 9+ years & BD & SS had a falling out that lasted long enough for SS to legally change his name? Nope, doesn't sound "close", seems like "social obligation"...

ldvilen's picture

Oh, yeah, Emily Post is the end all.  The Emily Post who used to say proper etiquette was:  “The bride should use a stand-in at rehearsal,” “the best man should have the busiest job,” “bridesmaids are to match each other precisely,” “the best man should be dressed exactly like the groom,” “bridesmaids are not to walk with groomsmen,” “the bride should arrive late to the ceremony,” “the bride’s money is to be banned from the honeymoon,” and “widows should not have bridesmaids when remarrying.”

Yep, those are sure all followed today aren’t they?  There is no such things as 100%, done deal when it comes to wedding etiquette.  Times change.  Rules change all the time.  However, if you really want to keep people apart, sure, just pick one out of an old so-called etiquette book or make one up.  People pick and choose which "rules" they want to follow to serve their purposes and their purposes alone.

dessy101's picture

They fell out between age 16-19. He changed his last name because he knew why they divorced. They went to concelling and rebuilt their relationship. SS has been taken us to meet FSDIL when they were egaged, They got engaged right after college 2 years ago and waited to get married because they wanted to pay for the wedding of their dreams. He knew he had a GF but not that they're relationship was that serious. They did not have a prom at there school. DH is very upset about the name change and the seating arrangement. 

 

dessy101's picture

BM doesn't have a SO as I said married to career. Overall we have a good relationship, not attending would be a severing of relationship which is exactly what BM family want.

Merry's picture

I don't think it's a big deal that SS didn't ask your kids to be groomsmen. I DO think that he's made it very clear that he does not consider you family. Your DH can push SS on the seating arrangements a bit I guess to see if he can affect that change.

But if SS won't change his mind, you can either go along with his wishes, or you can choose not to go to the wedding at all. If it were me, I'd not go to the wedding as an indication that I heard loud and clear that I am not family. And your parents can stop sending gifts, as they are not family either.

I'm sorry you're caught up in wedding drama. It is pretty common. I was invited, uninvited, and then reinvited to my SD's wedding.

dessy101's picture

Did you eventually go? How was it? DKs look up to them as big siblings. That is the problem. Even the In Laws are getting pushed 5th row but they don't care because the love SKs more than mine. And it is my fault they are 5th row because it would hurt my feelings if they go up with the other grandparents so SKs put them 5th with me, exactly what my MIL said.

advice.only2's picture

It sounds as if SS is giving the best he is willing to offer to a father that he obviously still has unresolved feelings about...I mean hello the kid legally changed his name!

Just because you feel as if things are good and you get on well with the SS does not mean that's how the SS feels about it all.

Personally I would not attend the wedding, but that is just me, why sit there and pretend like you are all one big happy family when it's obvious you are not.

dessy101's picture

They have resolved the fall out. They had some counselling too. We have since celebrated birthdays and holiday as we did before the issue came about. I am also concern about how to explain to DDs 15 and 17 and DS 17 (twins) that I am not going without affecting their relationship with SKs.

dessy101's picture

She defenitely does. We picked up the children from school on Friday's they would have nothing other than the uniform (she paid for them to go to private school) and bags on them. BM would not send any comfort items for the children either. It was very hard she kept track of everything they took out of her home. Not that we needed her things its just that kids have comfort items.

ldvilen's picture

SM is an adult.  She gets to choose.  Funny how you feel a SS can divide or try to divide a known married couple, but if SM does not go because she "doesn't like the seatting arrangment," and it is about far more than that, then it is somehow on her.  

STaround's picture

My god, there are women here who do not even invite their stepkids to their weddings to their dad. 

The 5th row back is hardly the cheap seats.

ldvilen's picture

That's not what you said.  You said if she doesn't go, it's on her.  That's like saying I'm invited to an event where the only way I go is to go through some sort of gauntlet (an intimidating, frightening, and sometimes dangerous thing that must be endured or gone through in order to reach a desired place or an end goal), but if I don't go, then it's on me.  No. . . it's on the person who insisted on the gauntlet to begin with.

And, don't try to act like it should be tit-for-tat for SMs and SKs.  They are not the same.  Not even close.  One is a wife to be and the others are children.   This is one of the biggest problems with being a step-parent.  Nowadays, kids may be treated more like a spouse, and then SPs are expected to put up with or take being treated more like children.  No one should be endorsing a role reversal like that. 

STaround's picture

Whoever is the host gets to decide on invites.   If you are old enough to be married, you are not a child. Op and her DH are not paying for the wedding.   OP can go or stay home.  It is clear that the kids are paying for the wedding, they regard the mom has the primary parent, and have made this decision.   If OP finds it initimidating she should stay home. 

ldvilen's picture

No, the couple about to be married are not children as far as DH is concerned, perhaps.  They have no problem telling him how it is going to go down, whether he likes it or not.  But, as far as BM is concerned, they are still children, and maybe always will be, regarding catering to her wishes for how dad and SM are placed, vs. looking at the real deal.  BM is mom and bio-dad is dad--they are equally parents.  Bio-dad and SM are husband and wife.

Contrary to popular belief, I actually think BM is the one with the insecurity issue if she has a problem sitting alone while DH sits with his wife.  DH and SM are husband and wife and have the right to be treated like husband and wife at any event.  BM is a parent, but she is not a couple with DH any more.  ENTIRE families should be able to see this and recognize that married couples belong together.  If BM can't stand sitting by herself, for the day, or whatever, I actually see that as more of a insecurity issue than a SM rightfully getting upset because she simply wants to sit with her husband just like any other married couple at the church will be allowed to do.  She's just wanting to do what any other married couple gets to take for granted.

And, yes, I know SM is being "permitted" to sit with DH in the 5th row, but it appears DH is not happy with that and not necessarily SM.  So. . . think about this a 2nd or two, SS's solution is to tell dad, "Well, dad, if you ditch SM, your wife, then you can sit up front"!  That is really, really low.

I say:  Go and play the flaming 2nd wife to the max., sit in the 5th row, and never leave your husband's side.  Make sure you wear a red dress and it fits like a glove.  Get your hair, makeup and nails professionally done.  Own it.  If they all want to think of you as dad's hussy, then give them a show.  Make sure you are posed in any pictures along side your husband too.  

Contrary to popular belief, you are not a ho just for wanting to be treated like a wife, your husband's wife.  And, here is a scary statistic:  “In one study (Hetherington's study), less than 20% of adult stepchildren said they felt close to their stepmothers. And while more than half of adult stepkids told Ahrons they were happy about mom remarrying, less than 30% were happy that daddy had.”

dessy101's picture

DH is talking to SS on the phone now. Anyway SS is very protective of BM especially since he knows why they divorced. I think it was inappropriate for him to have found out since the divorce was like 20 years ago. SS actually just said that if I sat on the 1st row then BM parents cannot fit on the 1st pew and that is not going to happen as they have been so intrimental in where he is today. BM father helped him get the right interships, and that him buying his own home, and having the job that he has currently and going to college would not have been possible without his involvement. Can you believe that??

ndc's picture

I absolutely believe this.  SS is letting his father know loud and clear that his maternal grandparents are more important to him than his father is.  And that's OK.  I'll bet his grandparents have done more for him than his father, or he thinks they have.  Chances are he spends more time with his grandparents, too.  He's entitled to his feelings and his relationships.  There's nothing your husband can do about that.  Your husband was an every other weekend dad, and he cheated on SS's mother and SS knows that.  None of this is really surprising.  Unfortunate, yes.  Surprising, not a bit.

tog redux's picture

A lot of fathers are EOWE dads by court order, not by choice. And if BM was a decent human being, she would not want the kids to hate their father for ANY reason, but especially not to defend her honor and victimhood.

dessy101's picture

DH is upset because BM father has always play the part of daddy to SKs. He overstepped into DH territory purposefully. SKs came over every weekend. DH did not have the connections as BM father had to do those things with SS. DH feels taken for granted. I feel badly for him too because he really tried.

dessy101's picture

If I do not go, DH won't go but he will be very heartbroken about it. It will also be the end of the relationship with SKs they are unit when it come to everything. Therefore it is not a light decision. SS is proven to stick to his guns, he changed is last name to BM after they fell out. It took councelling to get them on speaking terms. That was 5 years ago.

tog redux's picture

What does that have to do with OP's situation, what others have or haven't done?

tog redux's picture

Every wedding I've been to, the groom's family sits on one side of the aisle, and the bride's family sits on the other. What's up with you being 5 rows back, how many parents does SS have?  How short are these pews? Why can't BM sit in the front row, along with you and DH and any grandparents?

As for the head table, let DH sit up there with BM if he's so inclined. If he has a brain, he will join you at the other table.

And stay out of who SS chooses as his groomsmen. That's his business, and your DS's relationship with his brother is between them. 

dessy101's picture

SS wants row 1 to have BM, sister, BM parents, then after that BM sister and DH their DKs, then BM parents siblings and spouce (6 in total) then BM sister's DH siblings and their kids then DH and I, our DKs and In Laws and so on. 

dessy101's picture

BM is going to have a male relative escort and sit next to her so 5. The church is long but narrow and there is a balcony.

stepadvice's picture

With regards to the groomsmen issue I don't think your SS did anything wrong. He can decide who he wants to stand up with him.

I think it was very nice of him to take out his father and brother and explain the situation. He was being respectful in my opinion.

As for where you sit for me those things don't bother me. However, I do think your husband should sit with you and your minor children. I am unclear why you all can't sit in the 2nd or 3rd row closer to the front. At the reception its much more enjoyable to sit at a table than up with the wedding party. When I am at weddings we rarely stay in our seats and are usually playing musical chairs socializing with others there.

For not inviting your family they get to decide who comes to their wedding especially if they are paying for it. My mom had the same issue with my sister. She and her husband paid for the entire event themselves. My mom wanted certain people to be invited that my sister did not want to pay for. As a compromise my mom offered to pay for the added cost for those people to attend. If you want your family there is that something you can afford and maybe the bride and groom would be receptive?

It doesn't sound like your husband and SS are very close. How did he not know he didn't have a gf since he was 15. My father and I were never close but he still knew the names of my friends at that time. Maybe he was an un-involved father in that he did not ask questions or care to meet the parents of the gf? My father was that way. I talked about people in my life but he never asked to meet them. He also never met my sister's inlaws until the engagement party.

Also remember the bride may be dictating certain things in regards to the wedding. Some grooms don't want to get involved with the planning

This sounds more of an issue between your husband and SS. There relationship may not be that close and that is fine if both of them accept the way the relationship is.

I am not overly close to my father for many reasons prior to my SM becoming in my life. She and I are cordial to each other but we are not friends. (This works for both of us and there is no animosity) She is respected and my father loves her. That is all I can as a stepchild ask for. I'll be honest if I ever get married I will probably elope to avoid all the family drama a wedding will entail. In my heart I would not want my dad walking me down the aisle. I do know this will hurt him so for me a destination wedding would be better.

I understand that you are hurt. But has your children expressed disappointment in not being in the wedding. I hate being in them and always prefer to go as guests.

I don't think anyone is wrong but trying to figure out what is the right thing to do in this situation. If you are really that upset I would openly speak to your SS and his fiance to let them know how you feel. Not in a hostile way but with caring. Sometimes we don't know we are hurting others unless that person communicates why they are not happy.

dessy101's picture

DH knew he had a gf just not that they were serious enough that led to a marriage. Money is not the issue when it come to my parents, they maxed out space with the venue already and cannot add more people. They rather not invite my parents therefore but are inviting some former teachers, BM cleaning lady and gardener and their SO got invited - I am not kidding. Friends of the BM family got invited too, not friends of DH and I also. I know this because to prove they maxed out they sent invitation list to DH.

STaround's picture

They dont have to prove anything to you and DH.   They may see the BM's cleaning lady every week.  

Let it go.  Attend or not, you have already overstepped.

ldvilen's picture

Yeah, I agree.  SKs probably do put higher value on the cleaning lady than SM.  There's the proof. Sounds about right. I always say society looks more at SMs like free servants (with x-tra benefits for dad), but apparently I was being too generous, and some SKs see their SM and her family for XYZ number of years as being even below the cleaning lady.

stepadvice's picture

This reminded me of when my mom had to have a biopsy done she gave me a list of about 30 people to call letting her know she was ok. On the list was the cleaning lady and her hairstylist. Couldn't understand how they made the cut for a phone call.

dessy101's picture

This made me laugh, but I guess the cleaning lady impacted SS more than my parents did.

sandye21's picture

Insulting.  Are you a SM?  Or a SD?

STaround's picture

I know how difficult weddings are, and would not make an issue of where I was seated.   I asked my sister where she was seated at her  stepson's wedding, and they are relatively close, and she did not even remember.

tog redux's picture

She claims to be an SM, but with every post she makes, I increasingly doubt that.  Seems like a BM with an agenda.

Husband's wife's picture

you have to think in a pragmatic way. For example, my DH sees his boy EOW, while the BM is visiting the boy at the ILs almost every day. Naturally, the boy will be closer to the BM than DH. 

If your SK used to live full time with his BM, her gardener etc became his daily contacts while your parents, he would see them on a limited occasions (I don’t know the exact situation, just imagining)

I personally am completely disangeged from the boy. My parents never see him at all, they in fact met him only once, at our wedding. I would not expect the boy to invite me or DD or my parents to his important events such as a wedding. I would let my DH go and stay home instead. And I prefer this organization than having the boy constantly at my house, dealing with his life. Anyway, good luck and don’t be upset too much. You have your 3 children, you will have plenty of marriages sitting in a front row. Let your DH deal with this particular situation and take care of yourself 

Husband's wife's picture

A wedding must be THE day for the future spouses. They want to invite animals from the shelter? So be it. They do not want to invite anyone ? Hell, it is their choice (given the fact that they pay for the reception) 

My own wedding was a huge compromise from my side and I resent my DH for that. I hate huge events, I am agoraphobic and also feel responsoble for my guests. I never organize a party of more than 8 people, because I suppose that if I invite someone, I must be able to give personal attention to my guests.

well, DH is coming from a family that organizes wedding parties for 150/200 people. I almost cancelled the whole thing when the MIL started to invite her friends etc (we were paying ourselves). So we found a compromise. For me an ideal wedding is only best friends + parents at a remote location type Maldives. For DH it is this whole bunch of people. We ended up with 40 guests and it was way too much for me, I hated every singe moment of this event, except the photo shoot where we were only the two of us. I insisted on having my perfect wedding for our anniversary. Maldives, only the two of us, simple clothing, beautiful surrounding and absence of additional people. It was beautiful ! 

dessy101's picture

So since it is more important that BM parents get 1st row, DH asked about 2nd or 3rd and was told - Dad there is an ettiqette, I am not being difficult - even said that it is part of divorce, everyone doesn't get what they want. That upseted DH he said I have always tried to be equal with you all. SS says but it wasn't equal though and I had to deal with it. It seems like a fights about to happen.

twoviewpoints's picture

Meh, I don't see this one as really being anything about the SM or that there is a SM at all. Nothing about trying to treat Sm as a second class an have Daddy front and center with BM. Nope none of that.

My take on this is the SS is trying to include his father (and father's family aka SM and half siblings) as being honored guest (this is not the first time I've heard of the divorced parents being seated third to fifth row with BM's family first rows).... it's not like SS just sent Dad an general invitation and let him be seated with the regular attending guest whether the usher set him.

I wasn't sure at first (based solely on the original post), but the more comments/replies from OP herself added much more info. 

If Dad keeps rejecting the current plans and keeps fighting to change what the SS and bride have planned, Dad is going to find himself uninvited at worse and/or fairly more estranged from his son at best. This son has already shoved his father out one (the name change). 

Why the hurt feeling over OP's bio son being an usher rather than a chosen groomsman? Yet no fuss over neither of the half sisters not being anything? Seems selective hurt. Besides, it is not unusual for the groom to choose his best friends for groomsmen. I thought it was very considerate of the SS to sit down and talk with his father and half brother about it, it shows SS at least cared enough to want his half brother to understand why. 

Go, enjoy the day. Have fun, free dinner at reception , the company of your family at your side table. 

dessy101's picture

DS and SS are close. SS usually get DH sport tickets to basketball, baseball or football games and the boys go together for his birthdays and father's day. DS was quite disappointed in not being chose because he thinks very highly of SS. I was upset that DDs didn't have a role either but they weren't has close to and hung up on it as DS was.

dessy101's picture

I am not, I am just saying SS intiated activities. As to say why would he intiate these things if he didn't feel close.

twoviewpoints's picture

While activities together are nice and shows the son is trying to rebuild and keep a relationship with his father, it doesn't mean necessarily that the son feels the same about how close they are as the father might feel in what now is an adult child/father relationship

Sure, of course Dad thinks they have a close and healed relationship, considering not long ago son ditched Dad's name. Ball games on father's day and birthdays sound great and shows the son does want care for his father .... it doesn't mean they have a wonderful close relationship. The son is trying. 

dessy101's picture

DH tries to. SS is very into sports and do a lot of charity competition. DH and DS go to almost everyone to support him. But maybe DH and DS thought they were closer than how he thought they were.

ndc's picture

Frankly, I think Dad has overstepped here.  It is the son's wedding, and it is his (and his future wife's) prerogative who will be there, where they will sit, who the attendants will be, etc.  Clearly dad and son do not have a close father/son relationship if the father has never met the parents of the future wife the son has been dating for 9 years.  It is rude for the father to complain and make requests for changes.  It's not his wedding, he's not paying for the wedding, and his choice is to go or not go.  He's just making things more difficult for his son, and he is certainly doing nothing to improve their relationship.  I think your husband should stop discussing this with his son and just decide to go or not go.  In his position, I would go, sit in the 5th row and try to enjoy witnessing a momentous event in his son's life.

dessy101's picture

DH has always played second fiddle to BM father. That is why he is so upset. He felt the older the SKs got the more they'll see it but they haven't. It was a teenage relationship and DH and SS fell out in SS late teens.

Sandybeaches's picture

" it's not like SS just sent Dad an general invitation and let him be seated with the regular attending guest whether the usher set him."

I would say 5th row is pretty "general invitation and regular attending guests" seating.  It is not where a parent belongs.

I would also say if OP and her husband decide to follow the advice and go, it will be SS and bride that look foolish and petty not OP and DH and family for following their ridiculous petty "I'll show you"  seating chart!!! 

STaround's picture

1. The first 5 rows (at least, maybe further back) have 5 seats in each row.

2.  SS has changed his name to that of his mom and maternal grandfather.  

3.  I doubt his wanting his grandparents and his sister with his mom in the front row is going to look petty. 

4  Rows 2-4 have maternal relatives; again the SS, who with his bride is paying for the wedding, supports his moms families.

5.  SS has voiced resentment that his dad (and SM) gave priority treatment to his younger half siblings.

No, SS is not going to look foolish. Op can go or not go, but no one who sees that the SS does not use his dad's name is going to think this is petty.

Sandybeaches's picture

Thanks but no I didn't miss anything!! 

It sounds to me that SS and BM just waited for such an occasion to sit his father and step-mother in the "I'll show you what I really think of you " seating in front of the entire world to see.  He and BM will look petty in my opinion! 

Why is it then that dad can sit in the front row if SM and his other children don't sit with him? They are being disrespectful and asking him to do the impossible which is to pick between bad and worse.  He needs to grow up and not try proving his point in front of the whole church!!  OP did not have an affair with him so she is innocent to this. So are their children.  

The one point I haven't seen on any of these boards about Step-moms is adult children need to accept that their parents have moved on and in a relationship or marriage with someone else.  They need to respect it as well.  When we as parents meet who our children are going to marry we are expected to accept them no matter what.  Your parents marriage to a new spouse is no different!!   Kids don't have to accept them as a " a step mom or dad"  if they don't want to but they do have accept them as their parents spouse and treat them no differently than they would their best friends spouse.  Or anyone else's spouse period end of story!!! 

notasm3's picture

TBH - it appears to me that the groom views you, your kids and his father as just guests at the wedding.   I’d probably go to the wedding but sit with my family in the rear rather than sitting near the “special “ guests like you were some kind of wannabes.    And not tarry at the reception. 

dessy101's picture

None of my family is invited. The in laws, who I'll be seated near aren't fans of me. They think DH should have stayed married to BM because she is rich and educated. They actually invite her to family events like weddings and showers because she sends a check. Never actually comes though. 

dessy101's picture

Yes DKs are invited. I'm not sure DH would say yes too sitting even further back than 5th though

fourbrats's picture

every day. According to the Emily Post Institute the SS is correct. This is taken directly from Emily Post:

When divorced parents sit separately, and using the bride’s parents as an example, her mother (and stepfather, if Mom has remarried) sits in the front row. Members of her mother’s immediate family—the bride’s grandparents, any siblings who aren’t attendants, and aunts, uncles, and their spouses—sit immediately behind in the next one or two rows. The bride’s father, after escorting his daughter up the aisle and presenting her to the groom, sits in the next row behind the bride’s mother’s family—usually the third or fourth—with his wife and their family members. This protocol is followed even if the bride’s father is hosting the wedding.When the groom’s parents are divorced, they’re seated in the same manner.

In this case it is the 5th row due to the size of the rows. But in terms of etiquette no one is being shunned or treated as less than because this is the correct seating arrangement. Mom's family and then dad's family and then the rest of the guests when the parents are divorced and even when the dad walks the bride down the aisle. 

I had to Google this just to see what the protocol was. When DS got married we didn't do sides and just set aside the first three rows for family as a whole. Especially since most of the immediate family was part of the wedding party. DD is getting married next year and we will probably do the same. 

dessy101's picture

Yes but we have great aunts and uncles plus BM sister's in laws sitting in front of us. Emily Post didn't include them in front.

ldvilen's picture

That's the problem with everyone here who keeps acting like Emily Post is the Wedding Nazi of Etiquette.  Sure, you can reach way back somewhere and quote EP or whomever you want, but if you want to agonize over every little word, and apparently some people here want to, then what about all of the other misplaced (according to EP) relatives?  EP really needs to be ditched here.  

fourbrats's picture

they got the idea that the father's family sits behind the mother's family lol! I hadn't heard of it because like I said, we just had two or three rows for family. There are multiple sides of the family (ex in-laws are divorced, stepmoms parents are divorced, my ex and I etc) so we would be a mess if we did this. The only thing the kids did was seat me in the first chair on the traditional groom's side. Otherwise it was a free-for-all. My husband sat with me. All of the kids were in the wedding so they didn't need seats and I couldn't tell you the seating of anyone else. 

In this case it sounds like either the bride or groom (or both) or the parents are traditionalists and did look up this information. My point in posting it was to show the OP that no one was trying to hurt her husband. They even told her husband that it was tradition and had nothing to do with him personally. 

Rags's picture

This is such cowardly bullshit that it is nauseating.  I was best man at several weddings and my younger brother was my best man.  I explained to my BFFs that my bro was my best man.  None of them took issue with it.  Your SS is a coward. His brother is not a  young child. He is a 17yo young man.  SS needs to explain to his friends that his brother is his best man and he needs to explain to his bride why he will have three men next to him. The bride can have as many as she wants.  Balance is not a requirement IMHO.

In my first marriage my XW forced her brother into my wedding party.  She wanted even more attendants but I refused to have her cousins as additional groomsmen so she could have an even bigger herd of bridesmaids.  I told her to have as many as she wanted but my side was set at me +4. I only wanted me +3.

My vote would be that no one goes and that DH explain to his toxic son why he will not be there nor will you or your joint kids.  Have DH explain to SS that SS can explain why SS's family isn't at his wedding but that if DH hears anything but the absolute facts that he will make sure the entire guest list gets clarity.  DH and his wife are no less head table material than BM and her SO.

I also call bullshit on the divorced dad's family is seated behind his XW's family.  If I am dad and I am paying, then I "must be in the front row" with my family and the XW/BM and her family can sit their asses behind me.  Unless they wrote a bigger check. I get the why of the Emily Post etiquette on the whole thing.  But I would not let a toxic XW/BM or XH have any unearned status.  Not one inch of it.  Now, if BM paid for the wedding.. then fine. But if she didn't... "into the back row ... slime queen".

Just my vindictive thoughts of course.

I am sorry that your SS has no balls or character to recognize his father, you and his younger sibs.

Asshole!

So, here is what I would do if you choose to go.  If I was DH I would go and I would bring the entire family with me. I would get there early and I would sit with my bride and my kids on the outside of the first row.  BM can have the isle side of the first row with her DH.  GPs, regardless of flavor, can have the next row, and I would dare SS or anyone else to say one F-in word.  

Same for the reception.  I would go, have my bride and kids with me and I would be ready to bare some ass if anyone made the mistake of saying a word about it.

You, DH and your kids should rock the glam and screw anyone who says one word.  Dress to the 9s, be regal and radiant, and have fun.

People are idiots and they piss me off.  Particularly when they play these kinds of bullshit games with people's emotions.   SS is playing games.

Toxic assholes piss me off!  I hurt for your DH and  your family.

 

dessy101's picture

The thing is it is going to afirm to SKs what BM father's opinion of DH is. It will be the end of their relationship. I doubt the In Laws will take DH side either. SKs can do no wrong in their eyes. SS and FSDIL are paying for their wedding. Unfortunately how the church is, there is only one pew on each side for the first few rows then it has a balcony overhead in the back. Therefore no outer or inner pew. Also BM father is the confrontational type. He would have no qualms saying something.

ldvilen's picture

BM's father has apparently been allowed to replace the bio-dad in this case.  Yet another cog in the wheel.  This is the case with a lot of step-dads too, where they go on to or are encourged to replace bio-dad.  Sometimes justifiably so, but many a times not.  What a mess!  And, it is not due to your DH alone by any means (nor you, of course).  See, this is the type of crapola that goes on all the time in step-families.  Odd familial rearrangements are made, and bingo! everyone is supposed to or buys into them, and then SM comes along and says, "Say what?!"  Yet, for some reason, SM was supposed to be aware of all of these odd, covert relationships way back when.

STaround's picture

Dad had the kid every weekend, and he religously enforced that, even if meant making stepkids to cut vacatins short.  So how did the granpa replace dad?   Were the kids there, and as much as OP thinks the dad paid attention to them, with 5 kids that may not have been reality.   Every complaint out of her mouth is about her kids or her DH not being paid their props.   Op has beenmarried for a number of  years, since before his divorce was final evidently, so she should be aware of the relationships. 

dessy101's picture

He religiously enforced it because the grandfather was overstepping. If he had not, DH would have done more accomodating. It is not about props, it is about being fair. The BM and DH should be equal and treated equal by SKs.

dessy101's picture

Overstepping was very blatant. It undermined DH relationship with SKs and in the end the SKs hurt too. I do not care what anyone says children want to love and have a close relationship with their parents. But, if you find ways to make them see their parent in a bad light it hurts thie feelings.

STaround's picture

The bride and groom choose their attendants.  It is not being cowardly to choose who  you want.  Obvisously the SS has had issues with his father (changing his name is a clue), but is trying to make it work, but maybe not at the level that OP wants. 

Not that it matters, the rows are very narrow.  The OP, DH and her kids would take up the enire row.

Dad is not paying for the wedding.  Dad never paid CS, even though the mom had primary custody. 

StrawberryPie's picture

I didn't read all the many comments.  But first off, I am sorry you and your DH are going through this.  It sounds like the relationship with SS is/has been strained. 

I would recommend your DH mentioning to SS, that on this special day celebrating marriage and love, he will also showing this by sitting with his wife (you) and that he loves SS very much and would like to be as close as possible to watch his son get married.  However, given the options you both choose to sit together...in the 5th row.

Then, I'd have VERY low expectations for any recognition or inclusion in this wedding.  Sounds like SS/BM/BM's family are forcing you guys to be on the fringe of things.  Honestly, if they are that concerned with protocol/etiquette, it is going to be a very ugly look for them.

STaround's picture

According to the Emily Post Institute the SS is correct. This is taken directly from Emily Post:

When divorced parents sit separately, and using the bride’s parents as an example, her mother (and stepfather, if Mom has remarried) sits in the front row. Members of her mother’s immediate family—the bride’s grandparents, any siblings who aren’t attendants, and aunts, uncles, and their spouses—sit immediately behind in the next one or two rows. The bride’s father, after escorting his daughter up the aisle and presenting her to the groom, sits in the next row behind the bride’s mother’s family—usually the third or fourth—with his wife and their family members. This protocol is followed even if the bride’s father is hosting the wedding.When the groom’s parents are divorced, they’re seated in the same manner

========================

So people who know will not think this is ugly.

ldvilen's picture

Yeah they will.  Most people are not that well read up on EP.  Most don't look at her etiquette book like the Bible or such.  Most look at relationships as the relationships they are, and not as, "Dad cheated way back when, so he and his side-wife get row 5."

STaround's picture

The SS has likely told his fiance, friends and family that my parents got divorced when I was young and I was raised by my mom and maternal grandfather.  That is how he has likely described the relationship, and that he changed his name to his maternal name is likely how people see it. 

dessy101's picture

The in laws are more like out laws of mine. DH was very involved in raising, but I guess it just as always never enough.

hereiam's picture

This is part of why I believe in eloping! So much wedding drama.

First of all, it is absolutely up to the groom who his groomsmen will be. That is HIS choice. It makes complete sense that he would pick his best buds. Does't mean your son was "snubbed".

I hate going to weddings but you guys should go and your DH should sit with you, wherever that may be. Who cares? I mean, really, WHO CARES? At least you will be sitting together and they are not demanding that DH sits in front, while you sit somewhere else.

Go to the wedding, attend the reception, eat their food, drink their booze (will there be booze?) and have a great time.

Geez, I hate weddings.

twoviewpoints's picture

Right. Who cares.

The mass majority of attending guest are friends of BM, family of BM, friends of SS and the bride, bride's family (most of whom don't know Dad, nor care about anything except the happiness and well wishes of the bride... the inside crap is meaningless to them).

Who are all these 'people' who are going to notice, care and give a d*mn where Dad sits? 

dessy101's picture

DKs will notice and know. There are people that we know that were invited from over the years like godparents and such; they will know. And DH knows and cares.

twoviewpoints's picture

Actually your bio kids will know and think something is wrong only if they are told by you that you believe there is. 

Otherwise all they will think is that son is getting married, they get to get all dressed up, eye some cute guys over on the bride's side, have lots of fun at the reception and life goes on.

 

dessy101's picture

DKs are old enough to know that parents sit in the first aisle at a wedding. They recently went to one of their cousin's wedding as well.

ldvilen's picture

I hate weddings too.  I used to love 'em, until about five years ago where I got burned at SD's wedding and then just two weeks after that, got snubbed at niece's wedding that I paid close to a third of the entire cost for.  I'll never do that again, that's for sure.  

I hate weddings now because I can so clearly see that they have turned into massive party me-me-me fests.  They aren't weddings in any real sense of the traditional word, besides having a piece of official paper that says bride and groom are now husband and wife.  This is why this "EP says this or that" thing is so ridiculous.  You are taking etiquette rules from the 1950s and trying to apply them to massive party me-me-me fests.  Doesn't work, and no one should expect it to.

For some reason, some people, rather than just accepting blended families for what they are and inviting and having seating arrangements the way relationships currently exist, for some !#@$! reason they try to overthink it (and part of the reason is because far too many wedding planners, clergy subscribe to this) and feel this relative HAS TO sit there to protect fill-in-the-blank, or they try to force some relationship that existed years ago, and that they see in their minds as still the real one, the real good one.  It's me-me-me and MY Day vs. just being open and accepting of things as they currently are.

I read all of this stuff about "per EP," "per primary custodial parent," etc.  Wouldn't it be much more simplier and more becoming of a what a wedding is supposed to represent to forgive and forget and treat everyone equally and recognize current relationships as what they are?  Wouldn't that be easier vs. pulling up some old wedding etiquette from the 1950s so you can dictate where so-and-so can sit and "protect" BM or whomever.

STaround's picture

It is apparently what the people paying for it want.   I guess the rules on ST are if Stepmom pays, she gets her way, but not the same for a stepkid. 

The stepson is NOT close to his dad, he changed his name. 

As to the me-me-me, I see that in OP, as in MY KIDS must be given honors.   I wonder how long the SS has had to put up with that attitude. 

ldvilen's picture

I honestly have never heard anything so low as for someone to imply that whomever has the money gets to do whatever they want and everyone else be damned at any event, much less a wedding.  Maybe it is a generational thing, I don’t know. 

Parties, weddings, any events are supposed to be about making sure your guests are comfortable and enjoying the event.   It is not to be about someone getting to set “the rules” (for everyone else) because they are forking over the dough. 

But, I always appreciate when someone brings this $$ = ‘I can do what I want’ type attitude to the table, because it lets me know I really do need to stop attending any weddings and such.  They are just bridezilla potlaches and nothing more nowadays.

And, again, you are trying to imply that everything re: SM and SKs should be tit-for-tat.  These are different relationships, completely.  

STaround's picture

on his dad and SM (not certain this was over really the case), they are both adults, and get to plan their own wedding.   Not cerain why two indendent adults are any different?   yes, the kid should invite his dad, and his dad's spouse or fiance, but he has done this.

As to money, the ST approach seems to be if dad pays, he gets to contorl, but if not he gets veto power?? 

ldvilen's picture

The father-son relationship does not go away just because both are adults.  I would hope that would be common knowledge.  Nor, does the husband-wife relationship go away just because there is an ex- in the picture.

There is a huge difference between an adult friend, let’s say, not having any input on a wedding because he didn’t contribute any funds vs. a dad being nixed from having any input on the wedding because he didn’t contribute any funds.

However, all I can say is, for some people money is the end-all, be-all.  So be it.  If money is where it is at for you, no amount of talk of relationships, traditions and emotions will ever erase the big dollar signs from anyone’s mind or heart.

still learning's picture

The fact that DH cheated on his then wife and she had to pay his lying cheating a$$ alimony must have been a huge slap in the face to her and her family.  He married well and above his station only to throw it all away for what? A three minute fun ride? Yes it happened a long time ago and kids shouldn't be privy to nasty divorce details but they do tend to find out eventually.  

You mentioned that DH wants to go to counseling with ss, well the kid is an adult now so that boat may have sailed.  The time for counseling was when he was younger. He is getting married and starting a new chapter in his life which probably won't include him sitting in a stuffy office hashing out his parents issues.  He will have his own wife, his chosen last name which his new wife will likely take on as well.  

Right or wrong, your DH made his bed long ago and BM and her family made sure he lies in it.  He married into power and money, betrayed their trust, and now expects to be on equal footing when he never was in the first place.  

Your son is being given a very age appropriate role in the wedding. You and DH are sitting behind BM's family, oh well.  The situation with DH and SS was broken when you married him, your husband caused a train wreck that is still smoldering. All in all the skids have been extremely respectful and inclusive to you and their half siblings. DH screwed up with the first family and there is nothing you can do to fix it or make him an equal parent now. Not your issue. DH should have been thinking with his right head long ago but it's a done deal.  If you're going to go, put on your big girl panties and be supportive of the new couple.  

dessy101's picture

The issues surrounding the divorce should not dictate the equality of the parents; unless one parent abused the child they should both be equal. BM family never liked DH. His XFIL has even said in my presence that he was part of BM rebellious stage of life. Again there were othher issues that ended this marriage along with the affair. And that exact attitude of BM family being better than DH was one of them.Being vindictive affects the children in the long run. They should love SKs enough to be graceful for their sakes.

sandye21's picture

Ya, This is a real tuffy.  After getting more information, this not a cut and dry situation.  DH really screwed himself over in more ways than one.  No matter how many years ago it was, he broke up a family.  If I was in BM's shoes I would be resenting the fact that I was having to actually pay a man for the rest of his life for cheating on me.  I assume DH was employed at the time.  He wasn't the prime support for the skids.  He could have lived without the alimony unless he was going to attend college to better himself.  Even then, it should have been temporary.  But the fact is, he took the money anyway. 

My DH makes a lot less than I do because of the life choices he has made.  Should I be penalized for making better choices than he did if we divorced?  I think this is part of the reason why the skids and BM's family have no respect for DH, and it really doesn't have much to do with the OP other than she married DH and gets the residual effects of their disrespect.

However, he IS the Father of the groom.  If you were attending the wedding what would you think when you saw BM and her family honorably seated in the front rows while DH and his family were seated 5 rows back?  It makes the statement that DH is still being punished for his actions, and the rest of his innocent family is having to pay the price.  Some may say he is getting what is due.  Others will say he deserves better treatment.  I agree - this is not the OP's issue other than where her DH should sit - and he should be seated with her.

dessy101's picture

BM alimony ended years ago. The court gave her a figure and she had to pay it in part or a lump sum. DH did go back to school and pay lawyers with the money. Once again the affair was not the only issue in their marriage.

notasm3's picture

Your DH has two mutually exclusive seat choices:

1. Sit in front row without you. 

2. Sit further back if he wants to sit with you.

He is NOT going to be happy with either. So stop worrying about making sure that he is happy.   Tell him to make up his mind.  And you can choose your actions (stay or go) next. 

Steppedonnomore's picture

SS and his bride have planned this wedding and have not asked for your help in either planning or paying.  They have invited you, your DH and your children and given you a place of honor at the ceremony (though not the place you want).  Either go in good grace or decline the invitation.  An invitation is not a summons. 

sandye21's picture

There has been quite a lot of discussion about seating arrangements, and many of the posters have referred to Emily Post who was born in 1872 and divorced her DH in 1905.  She wrote etiquette books to earn money and educate the undignified masses. According to the New York Times, 'Emily was tall, pretty and spoiled.  She grew up in a world of grand estates --'   So she lived in a different world than most of us do.  Many of her standards of etiquette have been revised by her descendants so they may apply to present situations.

Here is an excerpt from the Emily Post Institute:  

'When divorced parents sit separately, and using the bride’s parents as an example, her mother (and stepfather, if Mom has remarried) sits in the front row. Members of her mother’s immediate family—the bride’s grandparents, any siblings who aren’t attendants, and aunts, uncles, and their spouses—sit immediately behind in the next one or two rows. The bride’s father, after escorting his daughter up the aisle and presenting her to the groom, sits in the next row behind the bride’s mother’s family—usually the third or fourth—with his wife and their family members. This protocol is followed even if the bride’s father is hosting the wedding.

When the groom’s parents are divorced, they’re seated in the same manner.'

So DH AND his wife should be seating in the 3rd row - NOT the 5th if there are the typical two rows of seating.

I'm not saying I agree with this or not.  Just sharing information.

But I've noticed that the very posters who recite Emily Post are the ones who seem to get enjoyment at insulting the posters who don't agree with them, posting repeatedly to wear people down to make their point.  Surely, if you want to site etiquette you should be willing to practicing it.

Sandybeaches's picture

Thank you so much for the back ground on Emily Post. I had no idea anyone got divorced that long ago I never really thought about it.  That was very interesting!!!!! 

Just as with ANYTHING this is just sheep following the heard.  Someone says it and others decide to believe it. Here is what I think about etiquette.  First there should be a new book of etiquette to keep up with the times and it also should only be about 2 or 3 lines... as follows...

You are free to do whatever you want and etiquette is really just making sure you have thought of everyone's feelings.  If what you are doing isn't hurting anyone then by all means go with it!! 

We were brought up to always consider everyone's feelings.  We never thought about what some book of etiquette would say.  If we had a holiday that consisted of a few extra people and they brought kids or something like that every kid got an Easter basket whether they were a grandchild or a stepchild or even a neighbor.  We have always treated every person who came into our lives equally. 

When my sister got married my mom had only been married to my step dad a few years.  We gave him a flower and seated him with her.  His grandchildren were in her wedding.  We have always gone on not hurting anyone's feelings.  My now step-dad walked with my mother and sister down the isle because he really liked my sister and wanted to and we would not hurt his feelings and say no it is not etiquette you have only known her a few years ....  How hard is it to give a flower, share your day or your life.  It all boils down to peoples feelings, creating new families and relationships.  It doesn't mean you are replacing he old one you are adding to it.  

dessy101's picture

Honestly talking about considering people's feelings might have an adverse effect in favour of BM. Because BM and her family's feelings are being considered.

But to appease DH, SS is offering for him to get ready with all the groomsmen. DH is quite happy about this; it is apparently boys only so of course I am not invited. I am not feeling this wedding but DH is starting to because of the above olive branch.

I told DH, how are we going to arrive at the church together? Am I expected to go by myself with the kids? The get ready is supposed to take place at BM house but apparenty she is not going to be there. She is getting ready with the Bride. DH said he was hesitant but BM isn't going to be there so it isn't as bad. I am NOT okay with this. DH said he didn't say yes or no as yet, but he came home telling me this as though he thinks he should say yes.

Sandybeaches's picture

I understand what you are saying and I do mean in general.  If they were following what I said they would be considering your feelings and your kids feelings as well.  It wouldn't be an appease BM thing it would be to think of all involved.

So get ready with them to arrive at the church to then be sent to the 5th row? If DH is not part of the wedding party being around for all of the pre-wedding things could possibly end up making him feel more left out than if he goes and sits in the 5th row.  

I understand how you are feeling.  This seems to be a very "left out day" for Step-moms.  Weddings are supposed to be uniting not dividing.  

My step-sons wedding was a nightmare.  I went so far out of my way not to upstage BM in any way that I contributed to the horrible treatment that I received.  I made it a point to find out what color she was wearing so  I would not choose it too.  I spent months on chosing a dress.   

I was asked to walk down the isle with my husband but not given a flower.  It went so far as to when they were passing them out the the girl went to hand me one and as I reached for it, she looked down at a list and said oh no not you and held it back.  I was invited in close enough to be shown that I wasn't really a part of anything.  In our situation BM is very crazy and this also contributed to the day.  I have known the kids since they were 9 and 13 so my point on the etiquette, would it really have been so hard to give me a flower? It was only to prove a point that I didn't belong.  

STaround's picture

But you were not a parent or grandparent.   If that bothered you, and made you feel you did not belong, maybe your expecations were too high.

I dont have any idea of OPs DH will feel left out sitting in the 5th row.   Unless  a Jewish wedding, I doubt he would be standing up with his son.  He may be very happy, but his wife kvetching may not help.

Sandybeaches's picture

"YOu were there as a guest and DW of your DH But you were not a parent or grandparent.   If that bothered you, and made you feel you did not belong, maybe your expectations were too high."

I was asked into the wedding party where everyone else including BM's boyfriend had a flower.  It was also very embarrassing to have someone try to hand me a flower and then as I reached out for it to take it back.  It was disrespectful to ask me to be in the wedding party and treat me that way.  I had no expectations at all as I said I tried very hard not to try to upstage BM in any way.  If not to prove a point how hard would it have been to give me a flower.  

My ex-husband is remarried twice actually.  And, the woman he was married to for 20 years after me is still my son's step-mother.  At my son's wedding, I made it a point to make sure that both woman my husbands 2nd wife and his current wife were given flowers.  My husband was given a boutonniere as well.  We opted for no one having hurt feelings verses pettiness or Emily Post.

 

STaround's picture

It does not sound like you were a bridesmaid? Do you mean you walked with your DH?  Althugh if one SO got a flower, the one should have too.

Rags's picture

IMHO SS's younger brother (OP's and BioDad's son) should be at the get ready with dad and SS as well.  SM and any sisters should be at the get ready with the bride.  That would be the right thing to do.

When DW was her BFF's maid of honor 2mos before we married I was then FDW's +1.  I was invited to the get ready with the groom and his party.  I had zero skin in that game what so ever.  I thought it was a nice gesture to include me.  I was the escort of his bride's MOH.

Denigrating the father of the groom, his younger children, and his bride (the SM) is so low class.

Honoring the BM as MotG does not have to insult BioDad and his family... and visa versa.

sandye21's picture

"You are free to do whatever you want and etiquette is really just making sure you have thought of everyone's feelings.  If what you are doing isn't hurting anyone then by all means go with it!!"  You nailed it.  Your story about the flower is sad not only for you but it is a sad reflection on the bride and groom.  It is easy to see that there might be resentments, and that they may be playing out with the planning of the wedding.  The OP and her children had nothing to do with what occurred years before she married DH but they are seating her in the 5th row and allowing her DH to choose to sit in the 1st row - like it's some sort of test to see if he is loyal to his present wife and family.  That's purposely hurtful.

I agree with Wicked.  It's only for a few hours - but I would insist DH sit with you or don't go.

Sandybeaches's picture

"If what you are doing isn't hurting anyone then by all means go with it!!"  You nailed it.  Your story about the flower is sad not only for you but it is a sad reflection on the bride and groom. "

Thank you and that is very true!!  They did a similar thing at the rehearsal dinner.  All parents including OP's BF got gifts.  2 gifts were placed in front of my husband and myself.  I did not reach for either.  When gifts were being opened my MIL yells to me what did you get? I didn't answer as both gifts were for my husband.  One that BM got for SS to hand out and one from the bride.  Again I felt embarrassed. 

At SS's wedding they made it a point to broadcast I was not included.  I did nothing to any of them ever.  In our situation BM is crazy and they let her do as she pleases because no one wants to upset the apple cart and have her cause a scene.  The kids were never allowed to like me. BM cheated on my husband more than once and left him.  He finally divorced her.  She never expected this and thought she could come back anytime.  I came along way later!! They have no reason to treat me that way.  I will say I won't be in that situation again as next wedding I will send my DH alone if he wants to attend.  

So sometimes there is no right answer and there is nothing you can do.  I feel I really tried.  I went and went along with everything.  Said nothing when I was treated badly and tried not to upstage BM.  Her child her day and I would never do that but with saying that it doesn't have to be about BM or SM it is about respect, class and other peoples feelings simple !!! Just becauses it is the Bride and Grooms "day" it doesn't give them a license to disrepect any of their guests INCLUDING Step parents!

sandye21's picture

One thing to think of: is 50% of marriages in the U.S. end up in divorce.  This means that the very people who treated you so badly could be going through the same thing themselves.  And judging by their attitudes they will be among the 50%.  Of course, they would never admit to being so rude to you but the Karma bus WILL arrive at their doorstep eventually.

With SS's lack of empathy and habit of disregarding the feelings of others, can you imagine him as a good parent?  One day he could very well be invited to HIS son's wedding.  It will be interesting.

Earlier in our marriage there were certain things SD said and did intentionally to be hurtful.  Even though I did pretty well in my career and even supported her father while he paid for her college, she let me know she was going to be so much more successful in her life than me.  Due to her entitled attitude she has exhausted all job opportunities in her field and is presently unemployed.  If she should need assistance I'm sure she is smart enough to find it on her own, but she has burned too many bridges here.

Harry's picture

ABM , SS and IL. Are playing with you.  Looks like there already is no relationship it already ended  They are , just trying to put DH down. 

He should. Not go to the wedding,  let them play there games. And not beg and beg ,his DS for anything.  

Icy's picture

So the kid that you guys raised on the weekends, who is not asking you to pay for the wedding, wants his half brother to be an usher and you and his dad sit a few rows behind the woman who spent more time raising him. What is the problem, other than your attitude? I am a step mom to two grown boys as well, but I don't have the time or inclination to pull offense out of my ass at every turn. Go to the wedding, take a nice gift. Be gracious and dance, have a good time. Or sit at home and contemplate how terrible your life is, your choice. Every time you create problems where there are none, don't be surprised when the universe throws some real ones at you next time.

dessy101's picture

Thank you all for your comments. I guess I got caught up in DH feelings and when he found a solution he was pleased by I kind of got into the "I thought we were in this together". I am happy for SS, FSDIL seems to be very smart and come from a great family. We are going to go to the wedding. DH will leave to go to the get ready via taxi or uber. After that I will pick him up to go to the wedding together with the children. DH is going to support his son and I am going to support him.

Rags's picture

You and DH are a quality couple. You worked it out.

Enjoy the event.  You have both earned it.

I hope that SS and FSDIL have as quality a relationship as you and his dad have.

Stepof2girls's picture

My  step daughter just got married this last weekend. I have no idea how much my DH paid or what he did because I was not involved at all. I’m sure he doesn’t want me to know, as when my three older bio kids got married he says it wasn’t our responsibility to contribute financially. My DH has always had guilty dad syndrome with his two adult daughters. Frankly, sometimes I feel like if push came to shove of he would always choose them over me.

 At the ceremony this last weekend I was seated in the front row, but ex wife was seated between DH and I. I don’t understand why it could not have gone in this order… Ex-wife, DH, me. At the rehearsal (which I couldn’t be at)  ex didn’t want to sit on the end seat with DH in the middle because it made her look like she was alone. She wanted to sit in the middle of DH and I.  I guess I should be happy that I was in the front row… But I hate the ex-wife sat in between us.  

 During the photos DH was called in to take family photos with ex-wife‘s family and extended family. I don’t quite understand this. But of course DH happily skipped up there because he would say nothing to ruin stepdaughter’s day. I don’t think that is appropriate at all. If DH needed to be in ex-wife’s family photos he should’ve asked his current wife to be with him instead of making her stand there alone watching. 

 I am so glad this wedding is over. Sorry to sound bitter. 

Sandybeaches's picture

" I am so glad this wedding is over.  "

UNDERSTOOD!!!  we are all happy when the weddings are over!!!! 

When my son got married we were all in the same picture.  (Ex-husband, my husband, half siblings ect.) We all sat together at one table as well.  Along with my ex-husbands ex-wife and current wife.  

When my step-son got married we had separate pictures, tables etc.  BM is crazy and we did not want to be around her as we were afraid she would start something and ruin the day. 

I actually don't understand throwing people together for pictures who are no longer a family unless they want to be.  It would make for waaaaaayyyyyyy better pictures if the kids were with each parent individually or all together like we were.  It really makes no sense to me why people want these strained pictures of their parents together with them when they are not happy doing it.  Just my opinion.  

Rags's picture

Sadly the weddings will likely never be over for toxic spawn in blended families.  My guess it that most of will be serial nuptialists.

ldvilen's picture

You know, 187 comments here (as of this moment) and really all we (step-parents) are trying to say is that married couples need to be treated like married couples.  Treat a spouse like a spouse. At a wedding to celebrate marriage and a new married couple, why wouldn't any and all other married couples be seated together, as husband and wife?  I know there is some argument here about 5th row vs. 2nd, or whatever, but at the very least, at a wedding, again to celebrate the sactity and importance of marriage, all couples should be celebrated as such by seating them together.  No questions asked.  SS will be seated up front in the family section with his GF of 3 months.  No questions asked.  Uncle Harry will be seated with his mail-order-bride of 4 months, vs. his ex-wife from 2 yrs. ago.  Why is there any question whatsoever that dad be seated with his wife of XYZ years?  2, 5, 10, 15, 20+ years, and dad and SM (husband and wife) still cannot assume that they'll be seated together at a family event!?