Is secrecy not toxic to a marriage?
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I have written before about secrecy and my struggles accepting it and staying close to DH when he maintains a separate relationship with SD. My concern is that, to deal with this I need to really disengage, and to disengage means to detach from DH as well as SD. This affects intimacy, fosters suspicion and causes a lack of trust. A whole part of his life is entirely separate. So I worry it is not good for our marriage.
Do you intermingle with his
Do you intermingle with his work life? Go out with him and coworkers for lunch? Sit in on meetings? Look at his work emails? Eavesdrop on work calls?
My guess is no. You probably know the general stuff - what he does, what his day was like, who his coworkers are - but you aren't privy to the interworkings of his work life. Arguably, his work life is more time consuming than his non-work life.
I say take the same approach with SD as you do with work. You can be disengaged without acting like she is dead. Your DH should be able to tell you that he talked to her, she is fine, and then go on about something else with his day.
If you force him to keep it secret, it will feel like a secret. If, however, you just disinterest yourself like you would hearing about a staff meeting, then it becomes easier to swallow. Disengagement really is just disinterest, so take the approach that SD is just an annoying coworker of your DH's versus his mistress.
Perfect analogy, lieutenant
Perfect analogy, lieutenant dad!
I'm curious, Too Old for This
I'm curious, Too Old for This. Has your DH given you cause for suspicion previously?
Actually, yes. He has given me cause for suspicion.
He has a history of misleading me about matters regarding SD. He has repeatedly done things without telling me: having his secretary organize a flight to Europe to visit her after telling me he would work out his plans with me; giving her $10,000 from our joint account for her vacation ( a huge amount of money for us); offering our home for her and her family to stay in when we are away ; inviting her and her family to use my car when they are in town; inviting her to our home.
These are just some examples of an ongoing problem. Inevitably I find out and feel betrayed. He will say “this is normal”. It may be normal in a loving, intact family, but not in a situation where SD has declared open warfare on me. She has distributed mass emails to family, friends and people I don’t even know about how horrid I am. She refuses to speak to me or acknowledge my existence- even in my home. We have gone to counseling about this, he says he understands but the lack of trust remains.
The things you describe are
The things you describe are NOT normal. The people I know who are in loving, intact families are not giving their children $10,000 for an adult child's vacation. I do not allow my adult children to drive either of my cars.
Your DH's family has no boundaries and your DH is trying to buy SD's affections. He is telling you this is normal to gaslight you and get you off of his back. He is happy to say he understands in counseling but does not want to make any changes that are inconvenient for him. He either takes you for granted that you will always put up with it, or he values your marriage less than SD.
You're going to have to decide if you want to continue to live like that.
Sacrificial Lamb Nailed It
DH's behavior might be 'normal' for him but NOT normal for most people or most families. In fact, nothing is 'normal' about allowing people who ignore you in your own home or declare open warfare on you. How would DH react to some stranger who came into your home and acted like that?
It is also NOT 'normal' for a partner to be so dishonest and gaslight someone they have vowed to love and cherish.
You have been to counseling and DH has just gone back to his version of 'normal'. State your boundaries only once and put him on notice. He needs to know that infringement on your boundaries has consequences. If he tries to gaslight you at all again, or anything sneaky, let him move in with SD. In the meantime, save up for his exit.
No, it's not normal, but some
No, it's not normal, but some of it is typical of a guilt ridden father trying to buy his kid's affection. It sounds like you two need to have a serious conversation about boundaries and find out what compromises he's willing to make so that you can be more comfortable in your own home. Write it down. Heck, be like Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory and draw up a contract if you have to! Be prepared, though. You may not like the answers you get. What are you willing to do if he's not willing to budge?
Also, be aware that he has no control over how she treats you. He can't make her like you or acknowledge you or be friendly to you. If you are agreeable to allowing her in your home to visit, you should find a way to be content being the Invisible Woman. If you can't do that, then she and her father should visit elsewhere without you in attendance. I think, though, that you're going to have a hard time with that since you'll feel like they're having a secret meeting.
Calling it “normal”
Calling stuff like that “normal” does not make it normal, or more importantly, acceptable. That would definitely cross a boundary for those of us that have disengaged and set up boundaries to protect ourselves.
Beware of gaslighting! Making you feel like you are in the wrong for feeling this is not right is a BIG red flag.
Confused
I’m SO sorry for highjacking your post, but I’m new to this site and don’t know how to create my own! Lol help!
Toward the top of this page,
Toward the top of this page, click on 'Adult Stepchildren'. Then click on 'Add new Forum Topic'.
I always felt the same way,
I always felt the same way, when it come to DH and SD57's relationship. It always seemed to be a big secret, which it was. Then SD57 threw DH under the bus and told me all the secrets. LOL.....Well all hell broke loose and I cleaned house big time.
Now, I have stood toe to toe with them both and told them to go for it. I'm finished and don't care what secrets they have. That was five years ago. Now there are no more secrets and DH doesn't hide his cell phone or conversations.
You see, I quit playing their game and they gave up the game. Their relationship doesn't matter to me and what they do or say doesn't effect me; thus I just don't care what the do, where they go, and especially what they say. It has nothing to do with the life I have built for myself in the past five years.
Walk away. Seriously, let it go and stand back and watch the reaction. When you get to the point of not caring, it changes. We are doing much better without me in the equation. You can't control what they say or do any way, so just build your own world without their relationship and have your own relationship with your DH. That's what I do.
I am curious
Do you have any relationship with SD?
No I do not. That said; I
No I do not. That said; I grew tired of the control from both DH and SD57. Everything in our life was planned around grown skids and I stepped away 5 years ago and made my own life. SD57 comes to visit her Dad, in our home, because DH is totally disabled. I am civil, but I have absolutely no interaction with SD57. My SD has always disliked me, I tried for 30+ years with her. I'm finished! My SD is an extremely toxic woman.
The key to tolerating my SD57 is being civil and not friendly. I treat my SD like she is someone I just met and I do not entertain her in any way.
My life is peaceful and I have never regretted letting this leave me and I will never go back to any of their relationship. Not saying it has been easy, but each time I decline the idea of re-entering the relationship, it is more peaceful and I love my life now.
(((hugs)))
Bless you
I needed to hear that.
I have always been civil, but I am done with friendly. I always had the impression that the nicer I was, the more she upped the hatred. I will stay civil.
It isn't always easy to be
It isn't always easy to be civil, as you know. But being civil puts you on the high road. It is something I pride myself in. I am not only civil, but silent.
No matter what SD57 throws at me, I've obtained the ability to completely ignore her and stay civil. That said, there are times SD angers me to the point of words on the tip of my tongue. If I feel the urge to respond, I leave the room for a few minutes. I take a deep breath and spell the word C-i-v-i-l. It is easier to spell than to actually accomplish; but you can do this.
Another ability I have acquired is "not caring". I could care less if this toxic woman exists. I still have to tolerate her existence, when she visits her Dad; I work at keeping my peace and I have gained a world of peace by disengagement.
(((hugs)))
My SD and her BM have always
My SD and her BM have always perceived my kindness and niceness as weakness and stupidity. Took literally years for me to finally figure that out. But I did and I managed to completely disengage before I even knew there was a label for it.
I remain civil and very distant as a means of survival. Unfortunately, some people are simply not worth your time, energy, and kindness. Clearly your SD is one of them.
I think I'd start taking
I think I'd start taking money out of the joint account without warning him. Logically, 5k of the money he gave his daughter was yours, so maybe take that much? And when he discovers it and gets upset, tell him you gave it to a cousin/uncle/friend to go to Disneyland.
Sometimes, you have to mirror bad behavior in order for them to recognize the crazy.
Also, add "suck it up
Also, add "suck it up buttercup". Stick to your boundaries!
There is a big difference
There is a big difference between a healthy level of independence and autonomy within a marraige and secrecy.
While full disclosure at the adnauseum level is neither necessary nor healthy in a marriage neither are secrets.
In my case I keep one class of secret in my marriage. I don't tell my bride about gifts I get for her nor do I always tell her about special events that I am planning for us. Those are short term secrets that are revealed at an appropriate time.
Money gifts, loans, etc... to third parties are full disclosure with prior approval actions. Neither I nor my DW would violate the trust in our relationship by sneaking around with that kind of crap. That is a secret with an associated sever risk of divorce IMHO. Once a marriage is entered into finances become collective regardless of who earns what. I am not referring to slipping a kid, brother, sister, cousin, etc... an occassional $20. That is not materially significant. But supporting an adult child, cosigning loans, paying deposits on apartments, giving money for house or car downpayments, etc..... all are materially significant and can't happen without prior discussion with and prior approval from the spouse.
While we both respect the privacy of the other and also respect the need for regular alone time and regular personal friend time we generally operate on the premise that non work time is together time. So, I respectfully let her know that I will be meeting a friend for a beer and some 1:1 time and make sure that does not interfere with together time demands. She does the same when she has non together time demands.
If DH being sneeky and keeping secrets ... that is a problem. So is being overly sensitive and domineering regarding some private time. I think that this can be easily depressurized by DH just informing you that he will be having lunch with SD on X day and you respecting that just as you would if he was meeting freinds after work for happy hour upon occassion.