College debt
Hi everyone,
This is my first time posting here. I am married with 2 teenage kids of my own and 3 step kids
(16, 20, 22). We got married last year, have been together for 4. I love my husband dearly but if i had known the amount of discomfort and stress my relationship with the skids would generate, the kind of fights we would have as a couple, i would have waited for a childless guy to come along.
My situation is made worse by the fact that my (sweet and loving) husband does not have a normal father-children relationship with his kids; they have been brainwashed by their mother to despise him, kick him when he is down, and pretty much bleed him dry. They are poster children for Parental Alienation; i felt like giving them Amy Baker's book for Xmas. He says he feels like he is on trial every time he speaks to them. No wonder: they have had 20 or so years of unrelenting denigration of their father, right there in the house he paid for and commuted to 2 hours EACH WAY, every day, for years (one of those leafy far-flung NYC exburbs). They do not mind telling him to his face what a horrible father they think he is. Add to that, his ex came out as gay 2 months after she kicked him out of the house 5 years ago (after telling him and anyone else who would listen - for 20 years - that he is an awful husband and father; i think he believed it).
Amazingly, the kids did not seem to be sad about the divorce and the upheaval; it was more like, Woo-hoo, Mom is gay! I wonder if they (or the oldest SD at least) knew before he did. And then i waltzed into this minefield of dysfunction and without understanding all the details right away decided that i was going to make it all better. Ha!
My question now is: after you disengage, do you ever engage again? My therapist says, if you react to them not the way you typically react to normal people it would mean you are allowing them to change who you are, your true nature. So if i am hospitable, i should not give up being hospitable, cooking for them, etc. but according to her i should expect nothing in return ( which is pretty much the case). So she believes the usual, you-can-only-change-yourself stuff: change your expectations and be fine with getting nothing from them.
Does it ever get better? The oldest SD, a star student, is about to start a graduate program in mental health, after spending a year abroad after college making no money. I wonder if in one of her classes she is going to recognize the dysfunction that she grew up with or see her own narcissistic personality for what it is. When i suggested she go and work, she replied, "What if i die tomorrow? My student loans will be written off, but at least i won't have wasted my early 20's working". I was speechless. Her mother's position is, You have your while life to work.
Our latest fight with DH - and the worst one yet - is about her going to grad school instead of to work to pay off her growing (at 8% a year) loans that HE took out for her to go to an Ivy League school 5 years ago. He *is* worried about them accruing (while she is out making the world a better place; all his kids were trained to think they are God's greatest gift to this planet). Has anyone dealt with SKids' debt? How? His credit history is going to be ruined by all the debt they have collectively piled on him, but he continues to enable them. He got really mad when i suggested that she give up on the idea of school to pay the loans off. He thinks he will have to pay off at least the interest on them. However, it was always his position before that the skids will have to pay their loans off themselves. After all, he has two more kids to put through college.
.
5 years since graduation, has
5 years since graduation, has a decent job, not paying off his loans?
Ouch! I hope those loans were not in your husband's name.
With my SD there is a combo of student loans that she took out
( and she has been paying about a hudred a month towards them - they have a lower rate, mind you)
and then PLUS and other kinds of loans that my husband took out. Superdad is right that even if she dies, he is liable. She has to pay them off too, that was the understanding, but she is in
no rush to. They are in abeyance? in deferrment, whatever, but they are growing at 8% annually.
So essentially, i do not mind her throwing her credit score away, she is free to do as she pleases but doing so when you know your father will pay the penalty is irresponsible.
I came up with an idea today, not sure if it will work, that since she got full funding for grad school (so at least she is not getting into more debt) - 40K for 18 months of it - she should apply for graduate loans, which she can get at a lower rate, pay off my husband's loans, or a portion of them, and then pay off hers whenever she gets around to them. If it is in 20 years - so be it. Then she can go save the world on her own time, on her own dime.
I think i can give Bernie Madoff a run for his money
How often do you actually see
How often do you actually see these wonderful little tikes?
Why does he feel like he needs to be nice to them and pay for their schooling when they are being little $h!ts to him?
Dad needs some therapy for HIMSELF, hopefully he isn't so narcissistic that he can't see or accept that this is not "normal".
It is perfectly reasonable for you to be protective of your husband and expect anyone (related or a stranger) in your house to treat him, and you or your kids with respect. If they are not doing that, if they are being abusive or bullying him, then they are not welcome in the house. Since it is also your house, and your children are there too, you have less options for removing yourself, so it is more realistic to just deny them entry or demand that they leave.
I would also look into a couple's counselor so that you can explain very clearly, with a neutral mediator, that HIS debts relating to HIS kids, are not YOURS, so if he chooses to take these on, that is going to be HIS responsibility, and as his wife, you expect him to still fulfill his obligation to you and the family as your husband and a father to his other children. In short "If you choose to go into debt for the Princess that is kicking you in the balls and smiling as she does it, maybe you need a second job because I expect you to still pay 50% of everything around here too!".
BTW if she "dies tomorrow" her loans aren't written off, they go fully onto her father's shoulders, what a sweet "gift" to leave Dad!
Hi Superdad, thank you for
Hi Superdad,
thank you for your quick and thoughtful response. You raise a lot of good points.
We see the youngest SD pretty often, the SS rarely as he is in college, and the oldest SD a few times a year. My husband is getting therapy, we tried couples counseling, it is all good but does not change the fundamentals - yet. His kids are seldom openly rude, but things do flare up a few times a year. It is really quite subtle a lot of the time. It is always implied that he is a schmuck and their mother a saint. The truth is, he pays for everything, while she is a kept woman with no money sense. Before the divorce that had 6-figure debt. I am afraid of being on the same slippery slope with him, because even though he hated the anxiety financial worries brought, he has a really hard time saying no to anything his kids want.
It did not even occur to me to think that my DH is still liable for SD's loans if she dies -
i was just so shocked by her blatant rationalization i had nothing to say back to her.
Arghh... I was working 3 jobs right out of college and having fun doing it.
It has never occured to me to ask anyone to pay off my loans.
Not college debt....more like
Not college debt....more like court fines, but I hear what you're saying.
HRNYC, thank you for your
HRNYC, thank you for your response.
the loans are a combo of hers and his, Plus etc.
His are at a higher trate and they cannot be consolidated.
The ex being gay is only relevant to show that their family life was completely messed up
with secrets and lies galore.
Pilgrim - the thing with debt
Pilgrim - the thing with debt - if your DH signed as a "co-signer" on the college loans - he is liable for the loan (Period!) Doesn't matter if it is SD who used it for college. He signed saying she was good for the money.
My SD29 needed DH to co-sign for a credit card, as she needed some medical work and she has 2 part time jobs, no insurance, etc. She defaulted and the collection agency (or should I say lawyer) came after DH. Pay $3400 now or pay over $5K. DH had no choice but to pay off $3K (or should I say WE had to pay off the $3400). Now we are signing and agreement with SD29 that she will pay $200 each month (automatically deposited from her bank account into ours) until the money is paid off.
If your SD returns to a school/college for continuing ed. usually loans are deferred (usually). You better find out, otherwise you DH will be paying for years on her defaulted loans. YEARS!! It really is not fair for you to have to be sucked into the money mess - especially if you have a joint account with your husband. Separate banks accounts is really the way to go in a re-marriage situation. If I had known that before I would never had a joint account with DH.
And no, she probably will never recognize the dysfunction. Sorry for your troubles. Welcome to our club!!!
Thank you, Miss-Step! I
Thank you, Miss-Step! I appreciate the welcoming words.
It sounds like you have a big mess on your hand also.
I wonder if a written agreement is the way to go. Let me know
if your SD is going to abide by it.
You are right about deferring, but i'm afraid that will cover her portion,
not sure if his fall in the same category. I will have to find out.
We have both separate and a joint account.
Not sure if it working out so well though. I will have to see.
Again, nice talking to you!
While it's a nice gesture for
While it's a nice gesture for their father to give them the "gift" of college tuition, it is just that a gift. And from the sounds of it, they really don't deserve any gifts from him. Just because you are a parent, doesn't mean you MUST pay for higher education...it's a choice. No adult is responsible for paying for another adult's college. And especially if he has to take out loans to do it.
My skids had college trust funds established by their maternal grandparents. SS22 has been in college for 4 years, but probably has 3 more to go. Having his college paid for by the trust fund hasn't helped him one bit. SD19 just finished her freshman year, and is on a full ride athletic scholarship. She saw all the "strings attached" with her brothers college funding and wanted no part of it. She's doing much better, having to be accountable to her coach/team and maintain academic eligibility. If your kids have no incentive to get done and get a job (ie., having student loans to repay, etc.), they won't.
Hope your DH can start to see the reality of this....it's painful to admit that your children are less than you anticipated them to be, or to be embarrassed by their behaviors.
Lol
Lol
Bad idea co-signing student
Bad idea co-signing student loans. From your description he will be paying both principle and interest while his kids continue to bad-mouth him.
You've got a man who consideres himself a loser and a doormat. For your financial future you should file for divorce. Continue to live together but completely seperate your finances. Talk to a real estate attorney on how to create a deed which allows you to protect your half of the house.
All cash accounts and investments are in one name or the other - no joint accounts anywhere. Car titles separate.
When the financial disaster hits you can at least sell your share of the home protected from his creditors and obviously all of your other assets. Buying a smaller home in your own name alone will at least give you two a place to sleep.
With his bankruptcy the loan collectors will then be left with the ones who should be paying anyway.