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Actually pondering divorce for the first time

tigerlily74's picture

I’m so upset.

As per my previous post “Dependent on Daddy Dearest”, in addition to being annoyed that SD30 summoned DH to send her to the dentist - despite, btw, her husband being absolutely free - I found out last night that DH paid for her dental bill.

WTF. She’s bloody 30yo and Daddy Dearest has to fetch her AND pay for her effing bill???

I completely lost it.

This is very upsetting as DH and I haven’t quarrelled in more than a year. Not just over his kids but over ANYTHING. I took so much pride in not letting his kids get to me, not letting them divide us, not letting them win. But last night, the rage took over and I could not control myself.

By that I mean that I went silent with rage and didn’t talk to him. I left for a work trip first thing in the morning and, despite his texts, I haven’t replied to his attempts to communicate.

I’m so, so upset. If he isn’t willing to address what upsets me, do I have to put up with him continuing to fetch the brat around and continue to pay for her whatever she asks for?

The fact that adult stepchildren are the #1 reason for the failure of subsequent marriages has never hit me harder. I’m not just being drama either. The thought that he’s killing the love I bear him has plagued me all day. I’m so angry with him, I just don’t want to communicate with him.

Sorry to vent here. I’ve nowhere else to air my feelings and I’m crying as I write this. :’(

Acratopotes's picture

Handing you some tissues, now Hon stop crying....... it's not worth it,

Calm down and ignore DH some more. but tonight will be the night where you have a stern talking with this man.

You will make it clear, that you are his wife and his first priority, his children are adults and married, their spouses should be their go to persons, not their father. Tell him he will be the reason why his son in law leaves his daughter .. he should simply tell her ask your husband over and done with.

Have a go at him for wasting his money, we all know SD called him cause she planned for him to pay her bills as well, he's been played and to stupid to see it.

Make it clear to him that there will be no more money spending on adult children, no more jumping when adult skids demand, You are his wife, not his maid. Make it very clear to him either he step up as a husband or it will be the end of this marriage and you will make sure you are not on the loosing side of things.

If I recall you have shared finances, immediately split the money 50/50 and open your own bank account, make it clear to him, your money will not be used anymore, he has enough money to keep a mistress happy thus he can pay for everything in the house,

It's time to let your inner bitch go crazy on his ass and stick to it,

tigerlily74's picture

No, I’m in a different country for the next few days and I’m not about to have a long distance heart-to-heart. Heck, it’s not about the long distance, I’m just not ready to talk to him just yet.

He said last night I should have known who I married, that he won’t stop “being there” for his daughter, and that I will essentially have to put up with it. This despite always telling me I’m his first priority. Do you see why I was so livid?

It’s our three year anniversary next month and this is the first time I’ve thought of divorce. Why consistently come in second every time his brats rear their heads? Why be a second class citizen in my own marriage?

Acratopotes's picture

oh I did not mean over the phone then Hon, when ever you can have the face to face with DH...

He told you, you should've known who you married, ask him why did he not tell you, why hide it till after marriage?
Tell him you get him being there for her, and that's not a problem, but what will the cost be, him getting a divorce for the second time? His daughter's husband walking out on her cause he might feel she already has a husband, doesn't he want to see his daughter celebrating a 21st wedding anniversary? Can't he see himself celebrating this mile stone?

Tell him, he says you are his first priority but as soon as SD snaps her fingers he drops you and jumps for her... how does he think itmakes you feel, and yes not like being his first priority...

I went through this with SO, and since we got back together, he is really trying his best....

Kes's picture

"He said last night I should have known who I married, that he won’t stop “being there” for his daughter, and that I will essentially have to put up with it. This despite always telling me I’m his first priority."

I've heard this before - ie the "you should have known what you were getting into" argument. Like hell we should. You didn't know that your man was going to be infantilising his 30 year old daughter and treating her like she is 20 years younger than she is.

Like Acratopotes said - if you have shared finances, separate them immediately. I can't understand why anyone in a step situation has a joint bank account.
If he wants an enmeshed relationship with his adult daughter, its up to him, but I suspect he'll be doing it without you around, and I doubt any woman would put up with this state of affairs for long.

tigerlily74's picture

There isn’t much in our joint account anyway. I have my own income stream, thank God.

He thinks he puts me first in all things. He doesn’t realise that I always come in second to his pre-existing family. Let’s not even talk about how I’ve never been accepted by his family.

I’m seriously questioning why I ever thought being a Second Wife was doable.

tigerlily74's picture

Actually, SD30 and her husband are both not working at the moment and are “studying”. So, it’s patently obvious to me that this was a concerted effort to get DH to pay her dental bill.

DH: But they are not earning any money.
Me: And whose fucking choice is that???

tigerlily74's picture

Deleted

Ispofacto's picture

Dunno. My anger level would depend on a lot of things. The general state of our finances, how much DH contributes to the household, how much he's paying out to the skids, the level of emergency involved. I help my own adult kids out here and there, more the youngest than the others, unless you count the occasional meal out. But the thing is, they adore DH and are always friendly towards him. I hate when DH spoils Killjoy because she is such a bish. That is probably what is chapping your ass.

Most of us have probably had these moments, livid and wondering if we should divorce. Overall, my quality of life with DH is good, so I stay, for now.

tigerlily74's picture

If she was a proper daughter to him, maybe I wouldn’t mind so much.

But, this brat doesn’t ever initiate contact, doesn’t ever ask him out. He has to go to her when he wants to see her. She gave him a cheap, plastic water bottle for Christmas for crying out loud.

But the minute she wants a free ride and a free dental treatment, she crooks her finger and he goes running with his wallet open??? WTF

FrenchPeas's picture

So she does initiate contact when she wants something. Lmao. They are alllll the same. Just using daddy.

marblefawn's picture

This is a long-range view of your situation. If she's 30, you and husband must be facing retirement as your next big life change. At least in the U.S., retirement is very expensive. Health care costs after retirement are outrageous, even if you're healthy. If you're sick, it's almost unmanageable for even an above-averge income. This was the argument I used when SD made $$$ demands on her daddy: you raised her, paid for her education, she's out of the nest, and you and I must save for retirement (and here's the crucial part:) SO WE DON'T BECOME A BURDEN TO HER.

This is just a simple generational fact. If each generation takes their financial responsibility when they should, no one has to become a burden to anyone. But it takes a lot of planning, saving, and self control.

I'll just add this. The three-year mark was about the same time I was thinking of divorce and, "Oh my god, what have I done to my life by marrying this man who is already married to SD????" Give yourself some time to calm down and think how you might constructively negotiate with him. Take weeks to think it over. You can do this. You just need to make a better argument than SD. And because of the ridiculousness of her requests, this is easier to do than it seems.

Right now, put this out of your head and enjoy your being away. Remember you are employed, capable and your own woman. You'll figure this out when you're not so raw with emotion. You have some tools in the box that she doesn't and you must leverage them. The best way to edge out SD is to have a fantastic life with her father after making it clear that she's the point of contention between you. I think this worked for me (as much as was possible) and we got to an OK place. My husband no longer makes $$$ handouts to SD. But you must use that big brain of yours to outwit their emotional lock.

TwoOfUs's picture

"The best way to edge out SD is to have a fantastic life with her father after making it clear that she's the point of contention between you. I think this worked for me (as much as was possible) and we got to an OK place. My husband no longer makes $$$ handouts to SD. But you must use that big brain of yours to outwit their emotional lock."

I did this, too. There are very few women who can love like me when I turn it on...and I don't just mean sexually. I'm a fantastic cook, a great listener...I'm funny. I have morose moods sometimes and can get sloppy...but I can push past those things when I'm really trying. I'm adventurous...willing to take risks. All things my DH values highly.

I was so tired of playing second fiddle when the skids came over that I often removed myself from the situation...I have plenty of work to do, plenty of friends and family...love to see movies. I didn't completely shut down emotionally from my DH (though he often withdrew from me emotionally during skid visits in the early years...which was part of my issue with the whole thing) but I was just less...there...less engaging...less myself.

I don't think I did this consciously...certainly wasn't trying to manipulate or punish or 'win' or anything. It was just a natural consequence of how I was being treated...I was merely attempting to buckle down, grit my teeth and get through it...hoping it would get better when they moved out for good.

I'm not sure when it happened exactly, but it was almost like an switch went off overnight with DH. He tightened up the purse strings with his kids and his ex...quit putting their whims over my needs...starting really prioritizing the marriage. I think he realized that his kids were getting older and would move out, and he didn't want to do life without me...even EOWE.

marblefawn's picture

Yea, harnessing those qualities that made him love you in the first place is key. They've come out of awful marriages. Relationships with their kids are often compromised and not that fulfilling (if they're honest about it). Second wives can be everything the first wasn't, but these husbands have to get out of their own way and believe they deserve happiness. When it happens, it's a breakthrough for them. But it's hard as hell to get them there, especially when his kids turn us into raging machines.

TwoOfUs's picture

Yep.

My DH is a great, loving father to his kids...but he has now told me many times that he's excited to have them all out on their own and to have our time all to ourselves. He's also admitted to me that he thinks he withdrew from me during skid visits early on because he dreaded them as much as I did, deep down...and that he overdid and overplanned and spoiled them to compensate for the guilt he had for feeling that way.

Of course, hearing that made me so frustrated. He expected me to grin and bear it cheerfully, being on my best behavior and being warm, open, and loving to his children and to him through all the disruption...while he withdrew emotionally from me...when he hated it just as much as I did. Only they were HIS kids and he at least had that foundation of love and shared history to fall back on. I didn't even have that...but he expected more from me than he did from himself.

When I stepped back...he stepped up and parented the kids. He's also admitted to me that every time his kids say something that he knows is directly from BM or make a face that reminds him of her...he feels a fleeting moment of hate and feels ashamed about that.

tigerlily74's picture

TwoOfUs: Well, the switch went off inside his head when I ignored him for all three days when I was on a work trip and after a long email from me saying I'm ready for divorce.

He now realises that I have too much self-respect to stay in a marriage where I'm told to "just put up with it" while he panders to entitled adult children. If he says that to me one more time, I'm GONE. I think that shook him to the core. I feel bad that I had to scare him with the thought of losing me, but it had to be done and I have no regrets if that's what it took to wake him up.

tigerlily74's picture

marblefawn: I told him I've seen parents enabling entitlement in their kids and how it's wrecked the parents' finances and quality of retirement life, and it's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN TO ME. That seemed to wake him up. He now sees why I reacted so violently to him paying for his useless daughter's dental bill.

He's promised not to pay any more bills. He's allowed to pay for meals and buy small presents as a gesture of his love, but that's it. And I said he'll have to get approval from me if he wants to buy presents. I'm not going to allow anything excessive.

It's sad that I had to threaten divorce for him to take me seriously, but there it is. He now knows I mean business. And even if I do love him to bits, I refuse to let that love trap me in a marriage where I am not valued as I should be, or where I'm told to "just put up with it". NO MORE.

hereiam's picture

Helping out an adult offspring in need, is different than enabling a needy adult offspring.

An emergency is one thing, allowing himself to be used by his daughter and her husband, is another.

He is allowing this to affect his marriage and make his partner feel less than. That's just not okay.

tigerlily74's picture

Hereiam: Thank you. He has promised not to pay their bills anymore. I've told him if he does it one more time, I'm walking. And if he ever says "you just have to put up with it", I'm out of there because I don't have to put up with anything. He's got the message.

Icansorelate's picture

My marriage was over within 4 years, for the same issues- financial support of adult SDs. When I raised concerns about his lack of retirement planning and the spending, he started hiding and lying about it. No way in hell was I going to support him in his old age out of my savings. I was living frugally, planning for the future and he was letting adult SDs spend like drunken sailors using his credit card.

marblefawn's picture

Yes, exactly.

My husband is in a high-paying field, but he had a dumpy apartment and no furniture when we met because he was paying alimony and child support. That was fine. That's the deal he negotiated fearing his ex would flee to her home country with their kid (Oh, if only it were so!!!) But he fell way behind in retirement savings. So he was frugal by necessity. I was frugal by nature thanks to my parents' example (my dad saved the used soap chips and melted them all down to make Frankensoap with them - utterly disgusting). I didn't mind driving a 15-year-old car, but I wasn't doing it so 25-year-old SD could squeeze a $2500 plane ticket out of him to go see her mother's relatives in one of the richest countries in the world.

I admit, I imposed my family's financial habits on his daughter. But it worked for my family and I thought it was fair - no free rides expected nor requested. Loans with interest for emergencies.

It's important to make a compelling argument to a husband about why it's bad for his kid and him to continue the daddy-as-ATM habit. I'm shocked at some of the financial requests I see on this site. A parent has every right to lookout for their own financial future when their kid is an adult. No kid wants to be spending a fortune on a nursing home for an aging parent.

sammigirl's picture

Well.....this will not change, unless you change your situation yourself. I lived this for 30+ years and finally decided I needed to take charge of my own life.

To tell you how to make it happen is another issue. Only you know your finances and your options. Whatever....you need to take charge of your own life. Just do it, don't announce it to anyone.

You will never regret making the changes that set you free of this stress, whether it be stay and set it all straight, or leave and never look back. I stayed and took charge of my own life. I don't like controlling people, therefore, I don't tell my DH nor my SD what to do. I disengaged totally from SD and told DH if he didn't want to accept my decisions and boundaries, that I set for myself, he was welcome to go live with his lovely Princess. It was NOT an idle threat and I proved it (another story).

It is 99% better; the other 1% is because I still have to tolerate SD visiting DH about six times a year; that I can handle, but she no longer is a part of my life in any way. SD is history.

Make changes for you; do not expect their relationship to change, it will not totally go away!

((((hugs))))

tigerlily74's picture

I think I have been repressing a lot of my unhappiness over the last couple of years. That's why my anger erupted all of a sudden with such violence. But now that I *know* I can and will walk away if my unhappiness is not addressed, I feel a lot more in control. So yes, I'm a lot clearer in my head as to what I will and will not accept. And he now knows it too.

marblefawn's picture

At least for me, the reason I wanted this sort of behavior changed was because the pattern frightened me. If it's a $250 dental bill today, will it be a down payment for a house tomorrow? Resources are not unlimited for anyone. And clearly a pattern was in place that any luxuries could be gotten by coming to dad.

I think you're right that their relationship should be defined by them. But it's impossible to separate cause and effect when people are tethered to one another by marriage or parenthood. By virtue of being married, the fallout of decisions made by one spouse can spread to the other spouse. If he generously gives to anyone, what happens if we need help? I didn't feel it likely he'd get much return on his help and I surely wouldn't get help from SD. And I'd rather never be in a position to have to ask.

Every household is responsible for their own financial well being. If people stand on their own, make their own decisions and fund their own way, no one has to ask for help in normal circumstances.

tigerlily74's picture

StepRightOff: What I was most upset about was him telling me (1) I should've known who he is; (2) he's going to continue "caring" for his kids in this manner; and (3) I just have to put up with it.

That's what set me off - and I don't think I overreacted.

He now realises that what he said (1), (2) and (3) was very insentitive and why I interpreted it as him not taking my feelings into account. He's taken it all back - AND he's promised to stop encouraging entitlement in his kids. I said I refuse to be in a marriage where our finances and quality of retirement are compromised by entitled kids who want free handouts. NOPE.

Rags's picture

Respond to his texts with one of your own. "Collect the dental bill money from your adult child NOW!. If you don't... be gone when I get home."

Sounds like the right message to me. Time to separate finances and inform him that as the husband in your marriage that it is his responsibility to provide and if he chooses to continue to be his 30yo daughter's beck-and-call boy/chore bitch/ATM that he will be responsible for all household and marital expenses without contribution from you. He can either step up as your equity life partner of move in with his daughter.

IMHO of course.

Good luck.

sandye21's picture

^^^THIS!!!^^^ If you are told it is his business what or who he spends his money on, I want to tell you that his 'generosity' could possibly have an effect on your retirement years. I know this from personal experience. Split the finances but also tell DH he is to place funds in a retirement fund before spending anything on SD.

tigerlily74's picture

Rags & sandye21: My parents are a good example of retirees who are still supporting their almost-50yo son. In my brother's defence, he has suffered unfortunate life events and mental health issues. Still, it's pretty much wrecked my parents' finances and quality of retirement life.

I told DH I am not letting that happen to us especially when his kids have no excuses to be entitled and expecting Daddy Dearest to continue footing their damned dental bills.

So yes, in that respect, I want to have a say in how he spends money on his kids. I refuse to have them depend on him when they have no good reason to do so. He has now agreed to quit paying for bills. He's allowed to pay for meals and buy small presents, but THAT'S where I draw the line.

Indigo's picture

Tigerlily, if I remember correctly you are in Singapore or some other outlandishly far-off place. (grin) Even before you married you faced cultural issues that I have only read about in books. There is an age difference if I recall correctly. Add religion to that mix and I was surprised how you navigated it all. I remember the discussions of how you could choose to fade into the background and not rock the boat, or dress to the nines and walk proudly beside your SO.

The concept of "dutiful" daughters, appropriate quiet female roles and patriarchal families are anathema to many of us who live in a different society. I'm not saying it correctly but I acknowledge that you are looking at your life through an entirely different lens.

Would the idea of SO interfering in his daughter's marriage and dismissing her husband have any weight at all? I just don't get that it will factor one bit since he is a dutiful father directing in a helpful manner his loving daughter's life. He does not see the invasive quality to his help nor does he see the blatant manipulation of his daughter.

Staying quiet for now is probably wise. What do you want? What is your endgame? How do you want to live the next decade of your life? You are a strong, vibrant woman. Focus your thoughts before you speak with SO. Will he understand? Who knows. SD/SIL are merely distractions to your life.

Indigo's picture

Now, if it turns out that I misremembered and you live in San Francisco, CA ... well, that's a bit of a foreign country to me. I'd likely need a translator if I visited.

tigerlily74's picture

Indigo, I'm really impressed that you've remembered my story after all this time.

Yes, I'm in Singapore. Yes, there's a 19-year age gap. And yes, religion is a big factor.

We've had our big heart-to-heart and he finally admits his daughter is useless and a leech. He's promised me that he will stop paying her bills. I'm still unhappy but it's a start. I think he's finally realised how serious I am about not putting up with any of her manipulations any longer. And he's got a bit of a scare that I am willing to walk. I wish it hadn't taken a divorce threat to open his eyes, but there it is. Sigh.

depressedme's picture

Hi tiger I hope your ok x. I just wanted to say I know how u feel as I have been going this very similar with my dh and osd. She is also married but emotionally reliant on dh. Extremely manipulative and spoilt. Dhhas also told me his girls will always be his priority they mean it lol . I’ve tried to get him to give her boundaries but it made things worse for me and the push back saw dh go into a tailspin to keep her and make her happy. Now we are seperating because daddy daughter dates came before helping me recover from surgery. I don’t think these men will ever change. I hope for your sake yours does Mine doesn’t care he will end up alone as he will have osd to be his mini wife forever.

tigerlily74's picture

I'm much better now that DH and I had a big talk. Well, he talked and I kept quiet. I'd sent him a long email and my position was clear enough. He has agreed to stop paying her bills as I laid down the law and said I would walk if he continued to do so. It's sad that it took a divorce threat from me to make him realise how serious I am, but he's now suitably scared that he stands to lose me if he continues pandering to his adult kids.

Oh, my dear, I'm so so sad to hear that you are separating. Having been on the cusp myself, I know how lonely and scary it is. I saw your post and your DH is really being incredibly insensitive the way he's acting while you're recovering from surgery. You deserve to have someone look after you during this tough time and care for your exclusively. Big, big hugs xx

depressedme's picture

Thankyou tiger x just be in your guard because sh and I had that talk and osd then ramped things off when she realised bank of dad wasn’t as excessable anymore. She wrote sh a six page a4 letter about it lol. Dh was so scared she’s cut him off he dances to her tune maybe not as much financially but she used sgk to manipulate him.letter excerpts in my blog x take care of yourself x

tigerlily74's picture

Depressedme: Why are these Disney Dads so afraid of losing their children? They are all grown-ups, for crying out loud. You would think they would be more concerned with being a good husband and keeping their wives happy. After all, it's their wives that provide the fulfilment at this stage of their lives. Eugh.

notasm3's picture

In the end it always ends up being about whether a spouse is a person with a spine and integrity. The spine is needed to do the right thing even when it is not easy, and the integrity is needed not to lie about it.

I have had my issues with my SS and his GF (aka Baby Mamma), but my DH does not make the problems worse. He asked if I could try to accept SS (knowing that SS had major issues). And I did try. But once it became untenable my DH accepted my disengagement. He has never tried to guilt me into accepting the unacceptable. And I appreciate that.

tigerlily74's picture

notasm3: This episode has woken him up and he now promises to stop paying for his kids' bills. He's a man of integrity so I don't think he'll do it behind my back and lie about it. I hope we can put this whole incident behind us now that boundaries have clearly been drawn.

sandye21's picture

Tiger, I think you should STILL separate finances just in case, as some of the other posers have mentioned, he goes underground. Both of you could contribute to a joint fund that takes care of household expenses, plus put a certain amount into a joint retirement fund. The contribution should be at least 25% above what your expenses are for emergencies, etc. Make sure neither one of you can withdraw funds without the others' consent. Then whatever he has left he can spend it how he wants to.

I wonder what these leech Skids would say if DH told them he is fully expecting them to financially help him and YOU out when the two of you are retired and can't afford a dentist bill. It might be be interesting to find out what the answer would be, wouldn't it?

Ya, how about throwing all of this ATM stuff back at them? There is one poster on this site who footed 1/2 the bill for her SD's wedding but she was not invited, and her DH is being treated like dirt by SD. Wouldn't it be great to see the look on the SD's face when they tell her, "Don't sweat our contribution to your wedding. We KNOW you will giving us a fancy wedding anniversary celebration when we hit our 25th." LOL LOL

My DH placed money in SD's checking account for years while she was making more money than he was. If he had been putting that money in a retirement fund instead he would be much better off today. In fact, if he needed to purchase a new car he might be hard pressed to come up with the money. If I was not totally disengaged from SD it would give me great pleasure to inform her that DH needs a 'loan' from her. I know what the answer would be too.

tigerlily74's picture

sandye21: EUGH. If DH puts money in SD's account, I will chuck him out of the house pronto! He can go stay with her and see if she supports him for all I care! GAWD, you must've been so mad when you found out.

We have a joint account which services household expenses and little else. My savings are in my own account and my earnings are my own. I will definitely take care to separate our finances from now on!