What would you advise a brand new young SM?
My great-niece is getting married this summer. Her fiance has a young child from a previous relationship. My gr-niece and her family have fully embraced this child, something I thought was nice, but felt a bit of trepidation about. From my battle-worn eyes, it appeared to be perhaps too much too soon. A while back, I asked my niece how the girl's mother was dealing with the "new" situation of gr-niece and fiance dating. She said very positively that all was well. I've never discussed with my niece (or her daughter) the gruesome details of the situation here in the past--she just knows in general that BM tried causing trouble and that the skids are aholes.
So, now, full force wedding planning is happening. My niece tells me that BM is starting to act up. "She was fine until the engagement." Bingo. The BM is using the child to message the father about various issues/demands, most involving money, and there are a few other new behaviors. There is no CO (sigh). The fiance apparently pays for almost everything for this child and the demands are now ramping up. My gr-niece has a fantastic job, btw.
My niece told her daughter that her fiance needs to get the custody/support arrangement in place (the bio parents were never married; there was no divorce). In addition to that or "Run, girl, run!" what simple advice would you give her?
I told my niece to tell her daughter to call me any time and mentioned that there is a ton of info "out here" about these situations. Niece's family members are all shaking their heads in disbelief just as I once did. I hate to see my gr-niece walking into a toxic cesspool.
Put the $ into a workable
Put the $ into a workable custody/support order now and stick w/ it because if she doesn't their home will be hostage at the whims of a BM who might not want them happy. Not all BMs are that way but it's still a good idea to not borrow trouble and continue on w/out one.
Yes. Thank you.
Yes. Thank you.
Tell her to grab her best
Tell her to grab her best running shoes!
Even in the best of circumstances (like mine) where there is a very solid CO in place, no child support, no alimony, and both BM and DH have very high paying jobs. Their ugly mess of a divorce at least meant they had good lawyers hammering it out. But even still, if my daughter said she was seeing a man with children (at a young age without kids of her own) it would honestly just make me so sad. I'd want her to experience new marriage, having kids, buying a house, etc without all the unnecessary drama of another woman and her children.
Your niece is likely in the throes of honeymoon phase bliss so she may take all warning with a grain of salt. At this point, I'd just caution her to wait. Give it another year and see if it's still what she wants. (Unfortunately this is dependent on her age and if she wants her own children we have that damn biological clock) but rushing in to the blended family life is never, ever a good idea.
I think what might be
I think what might be "feeding" the BM's emotions is that my gr-niece and her fiancé have known each other since high school and had dated prior to BM. So, they've known each other a while and have been dating again for maybe 3 years. Wedding planning is a big GO right now. There is no way she'd reconsider anything at this point. I really fear for her, though--and her fiancé is a really sweet guy--although she is not a pushover at all.
Yikes. Sounds like the
Yikes. Sounds like the perfect time for BM to bring out her crazy jealous side.
I just hope your gr-niece knows how to be smart about her finances. That's the key.
He may be sweet but he isn't showing that he is sharp.
Which is a looming shitstorm for GN unless she has the ability to control all of this.
I fear for her. Likely her FDH is a lost cause.
Unfortunately.
When love blinds people to the intricacies of reality it can get very painful.
There are other ways to be, but focusing on behaviors, truth, and facts works for me,. It invests in a quality life, and it minimizes pain and heartbreak. Even when others appear hell bent on sligning pain and conflict in every direction.
Also, before the marriage,
Also, before the marriage, she definitely needs to speak with an estate attorney- ALONE first
Was thinking the same
Get a super tight pre-nup. Suggest they talk about finances NOW, before kid gets older and needs more. Make sure they discuss their "ours" children and who and what and all that. She will more than likely be the one supporting the ours children while fiance finances BM and that child.
And definitely strongly point G-Niece towards Steptalk if you feel thats appropriate.
Obv first and foremost is
Obv first and foremost is that she does not get married until he has a defined court order with stipulated financial obligations and custody parameters
Second, is there a rush to marry? Is she in love with being in love and walking down the aisle? Is she "auditioning" for wife/mother with him and his child.. going all out to care for the child vs seeing what kind of father he really is?
Third, does she have a reasonable idea of why his relationship with the bio mother broke down? Has he grown from that?
Fourth, How does he approach parenting? Boundaries, expectations? Does he back her up or undercut her authority in the home and with his child?
Fifth.. SEPARATE finances.. but also transparency between them regarding their financial situations.. (not all step related).. how do they approach savings.. debt... will his obligations re the child allow him to partner with her on shared goals.
Finally.. don't rush to have kids of your own until you see how your life settles in with the new Custody Order (the one that is a non-negotiable) and his child etc.. so if you find it is not workable.. you haven't dragged some other poor child into stepland.
Unfortunately, advice often doesn't "stick" with people.. they want what they want.. they want their little family.. they have that fantasy.. and can be pretty darn willful in the amount of stuff they will turn a blind eye to.. until they have had it.. and come here wondering "where did it all go wrong".. and can't I have things with my child without that "OTHER" child being involved or considered... (nope.. you had a kid with a guy with a kid.. sorry.. ship sailed for the most part.. your child will not ever be an "only" child). She may be dazzled by the ring.. by the catering.. the white dress.. the honeymoon.. but with a young child.. she has a LOT of years ahead of her.. thinking carefully now.. could save a lot of heart ache.
I'm taking notes. Thank you.
I'm taking notes. Thank you.
It's probably useless
It's probably useless to talk to her, she's thinking her situation is different, nothing will go wrong, blah blah blah. Maybe tell her about this site, lightly mention that it specifically deals with all kinds of step issues. Perhaps between discussions about bridesmaids and flowers, shell take a glance but don't count on it.
Honestly.. probably the
Honestly.. probably the biggest piece of advice is to make sure her fiance gets a custody order with all that entails.. that will give her a look at what the physical and financial obligations her husband to be will have towards his child.
I know how that is. I was
I know how that is. I was absolutely shocked when a coworker asked me if DH--when we were dating--had kids, and when I told her yes, she frowned and mumbled about how awfully difficult those situations were. I was offended! lol.
Come on
Her situation is special. None of the problems in this boards apply to her. That magic dust will take care of it all. No $hit show for her. '
BF and his X must get to a settlement. X just doesn't demand $ at any chance she gets. There's big Red Flags always flying.
NO CO. No CS order. Just like DGGN doesn't exist, or the world is going around and she is hanging on.
I'm confused, Harry! What is
I'm confused, Harry! What is DGGN?
Tell her we can't wait to
Tell her we can't wait to welcome her and her grievances on steptalk! It will happen soon enough!
(No subject)
As great as all the advice is
As great as all the advice is.. I also agree that it's tough to override someone's preconcieved notion. If the girl has made up her mind that he is "the one".. there is probably little cautionary advice that will sink in. She is past that point.. she is picking out registry items.. selecting her colors and venue and the flavor of her cake.. she is INVESTED in this thing at this point in all likelihood.
She also probably thinks.. "I'm a reasonable person.. of course I will not have problems.. I'm not a trouble maker.. I don't mind sharing my husband's "burdens".. love is enough.
Of course, being reasonable and sensible only really works in situations where others are behaving similarly and in steplife.. ahh we know that is often NOT the case.
But.. at least strongly giving the suggestion that without a CO, their household will be subject to the whims of the ex.. would be the minimum of advice the girl should hear.. and maybe the "only" advice.. if she were to take just one piece of it.
Yea, telling her not to go
Yea, telling her not to go forward never entered my mind. Just looking at a couple pieces of wisdom to pass on. I agree--I'll strongly suggest the CO (which will go over like a lead balloon right now with the BM, I'm sure). Thanks.
Maybe also get her to check
Maybe also get her to check out the CS calculator for her state and point out that, with a CO, that sum would be the same every month and not subject to BM's whims. She may not care today, but if she plans on having her own child(ren), she might find they can't afford to. Ditto about buying a home, car repairs, etc.
Does she have any idea how much money goes to BM every month?
Also, please advise her against fully blending finances...
Encourage her to come and read around this site.
Encourage her to come and read around this site. I know she will think her situation is different - but it might open her eyes a bit.
In addition to everything Esmod said, I would also encourage her to try and tread lightly with the kids, they are also in the honeymoon phase and once she settles into her role as SM, their attitudes will also change. Again, she won't think it will happen to her, but there is story after story here about it happening to others.
No doubt she is thinking with her tingly bits and not her brain.
My DW was a single teen mom. A CO is even more critical IMHO.
When there is no officially recognized relationship it is even more critical to have a CO.
My DW got a CO shortly before SS turned 1yo. As a single teen mom she automatically had full physical and legal custody of her child. There was no recognition of paternity at SS's birth. The SpermIdiot was hooking up with a fresh stable of 16yo girls when DW kicked him out. That is when she initiated a CO to establish paternity, custody, and CS. That CO affirmed full physical and legal custody of my SS for my bride. No visitation was set due to SS being an infant. After DW left the people's republic of SpermLand for University out of State, the criticality of a CO became even more evident. When the small town grapevine got back to the SpermGrandHag with the news that DW was dating someone, the battle began when she filed a custody suit against my DW in the SpermIdiot's name. By forging his signature on the filing paperwork. Untimately the original CO confirming full physical and legal for my DW was upheld and updated to add long distance visitation for the SpermClan.
It is key not to play games and tolerate no games from the opposition. Lock it down tight, and enforce it to the letter.
Time for your G-Niece to put her foot to her DF's backside to get a CO, get set CS and visitation established, then cut off all unrelated contact with BM from that point on. For damned sure GN needs to make it clear to her DF that her income will not support his past indescriminant breeding and that it is either all in on the CO with zero deviation. No being BM's beck and call drop off day care, no extra money for anything.... ever.
Though not my DW, single moms can be hard on the heart strings and can manipulate the shit out of their baby daddy and baby daddy's new mate and the family they are creating. Beware the "but it is for the baaabbbbyyyyyy!" bullshit. Nope. The CS is the CS.
She & he need to keep emotion out of it. Be fully focused on investing whatever it takes to get a CO then enforce that CO to the letter with BM. Do that on day one, and her life, and their marriage will be a whole lot less drama filled.
Since BM pulled the bait and switch going from reasonable, pleasant, and engaged to whatever she is pulling as the wedding approaches, she is a write off from that point on and has zero place in the lives of the baby daddy or your GN IMHO. DF needs to get the CO, get CS established, and then get what he pays for ourt of the BM. He pays her for the housing, care, feeding, etc.. of his child when his child is not with him. It really is just that simple. If it is not kept just that simple, this child, your GN, and her STBDH are in for a shit storm life of continually escalating proportions.
Be nice, until it is time to not be nice. BM has set that point as. now with her shift in behavior
I know that she and everyone are all pumped up over the upcoming nuptials. However, free ranging this crap is a nightmare from the second it starts and it just gets worse from their. It may be a tough conversation to have but she needs to know that second marriages fail at a significantly higher rate than initial marriages. IMHO, though never married to teh BM, GN's FDH is a retread and odds are that the risk of failure in what is a first marriage for both of them is likely on par with a second or subsequent marriage.
So, GN needs to go into this with her eyes wide open, no wedding without a CO, not one Cent of her income goes to the BM and not one Cent of her income goes to free up him sending money to BM. The CS and the CS only. Period. Dot.
BM is no longer with the baby daddy and his future and quality of life are no longer her concern. GN needs to be firm in keeping BM in her place as GN creates her marriage and family with her DF and SD.
Structure, structure, structure and defending that hill to the last breath. If GN and make that happen, she and her DH as well as her SD can have a great life together.
At least that has been my experience as a SP and DH in an out of wedlock spawn situation. I would advise that if they live local to BM, that they rectify that ASAP. Distance is a great tool for containing a toxic opposition.
I pray that your GN has her version of my experience in being a child free newlywed to a single parent who bred OOWL. All in all, it has been a great experience for me and we have build a wonderful life together and prepared a good man to establish his place in the world. In spite of the shallow and polluted end of his gene pool.
Okay, I will save to avoid repeating myself... again.
I think if anyone can stand
I think if anyone can stand her ground, it is this young woman. She's pretty confident, a bit feisty, and normally speaks her mind. My heart just breaks for her that this crap is starting at this time. It's a distraction. We know about the "You're not paying attention to meeeeee" bs. And, yes, they have talked about moving. I think if things went very south, that would make the decision for them. Thanks.
Thank you, everyone. I'm
Thank you, everyone. I'm going to talk to my niece, her mother, today and make the two most important points: Fiance needs a CO (like yesterday); and gr-niece should keep her finances separate from future husband. Also, to keep things as least toxic as possible running up to the wedding, I have a few communication practices that we used that worked well to keep BM at bay.
The sad thing (well, one of the sad things) about this is that my gr-niece will be blamed (as was I) for any changes that occur and will likely be demonized by both mother and kid. It's terrible that gr-niece (and her family) feel so blindsided by all of this just a few months before the wedding. All was wonderful and good and smelled like spring flowers before the engagement, when gr-niece and fiance were spending a lot of time with the child while BM was out partying (she's single)--yes, I looked at her Facebook photos. lol.
Again, my gr-niece is no shrinking violet wallflower, so she has that going for her. Sigh.
Than you AGAIN!
How old is the child?
Mia, I know this may not be something YOU can bring up but is the fiance 100% positive the child is his? If not, establishing paternity might be a good first step.
Along with financial protection, I would also suggest you lay it flat out on the line with your Gniece. Tell her that there will ALWAYS be another woman in her DH's life - The BM.
Tell her you speak from experience and one thing she MUST understand is BM will have significant influence over what happens with that child, and by extension, her soon-to-be DH. How does she feel about that? There will be another woman in her marriage for as long as BM lives. And it doesn't matter how far away they move. That child/mother combo are going to be around FOR LIFE.
I think it is also important for all the family members who are so happily embracing this new child/situation to understand that their first priority should be to lay it on the line for Gniece as to these realities. It is probably hard for Gniece to look at her situation objectively when everyone is telling her how "cute" and "sweet" this child is. Especially when they have no idea how Steplife goes.
One think you may want to consider is offering Gniece a "shower gift" of a session or two with a stepfamily counselor. At the least, she would be getting insights from a third, professional party who may be able to open her eyes up about the impending challenges. Including all the financial ramifications.
You make a good point about paternity test.
When I was in my twenties, I was friendly with a couple, where the husband had a child from previous relationship. The BM basically dumped the son on them, and was mostly out of the picture. Since they were a young couple, both just starting their university degrees, then later establishing own business (that's been very successful for decades now), the husband's parents were mostly responsible for the son. The father and son had a good relationship, the step mother and the son - less so, but essentially these four people raised him entirely into adulthood. I hear he's done quite well.
Then came the plot twist, when BM popped up out of nowhere and admitted that the boy's father was someone she had a brief affair or a one night stand with. The reason she foisted the kid onto my friend and his family was because she knew they were dependable and kind people. To their own detriment, as it turns out.
imagine the amount of heartbreak for the man, the stress for his wife and money for the grandparents it would have saved over the two decades. The poor kid was also very attached to his father, and at the time the BM made her admission, he was still unaware that his reality as he knew it, his stable side of the family was all a house of cards.
Best wishes...
...with your discussion today. I am a bit concerned, because sometimes no matter how kind and compassionate our delivery is, it may not be well received. You will have peace of mind because you honestly shared your knowledge by filling in the blanks about dynamics they would not even know to consider. Every single one of us has likely had a situation of 'we don't know what we don't know'...and look how that has turned out for so many of us. Blessings to you for doing the right thing and arming your niece with knowledge, Mia. Blessings to your niece too, as she navigates her future.
You are also right that your niece will likely shoulder the blame for any and all changes. As were you. As was I. And so many others.... Sometimes I think the fact that one is "no shrinking violet wallflower" can work against us. Not only do we stand our ground, those who do not have our chutzpah may resent us even more. That said, I will never be a "shrinking violet wallflower" because betraying oneself for another's comfort is never a winning move.
IMHO it is far from terrible. It is the best thing to happen.
Better to know it all now than after there is paperwork and requiring a divorce later. If they know now, GN and her DF have a chance to build their life with boundaries, and the rest of the family has the facts so being supportive will happen rather than not.
Even my mom could not believe how toxic our stories about SpermGrandHag were. My mom took the position that the Hag could not possibly be that bad since no grandmother would do that. Meanwhile back at the ranch and when SS was 17 my parents visited us for Christmas. The phone rang and it was the Hag calling to confirm visitation travel. As was the usual case, she got nasty with DW. We were all in the LR when DW was on with the Hag. When the Hag started yelling and cursing my mom got "the look" on her face, stood up, walked across the LR and took the phone from DW and tore into the Hag then told her to call back when she could behave as an adult. In tears mom took my DW in her arms, gave her an incredible mom hug, and apologized for not recognizing the severity of what we had been venting about for years was as bad as we had been saying it was.
I hope that GN can separate her fee fees from the critical actions that have to happen and drives those actions promptly whether DF wants to do it or not.
ETA: And yes to a paternity test. In an OOWL breeding broken up couple situation, better to do it and move forward appropriately to the results. Of course the fee fees are to take care of the kid, DF has been daddy from the beginning, etc, etc, etc.. However, if he isn't the BioDad, GN tying her star to his naive guild driven non duty to BM's progeny by someone else, could be a great reset for GN and DF starting their life together. If DF is the baby daddy, then they know and can proceed at least from a position of surity that he is the baby daddy.
Dear Great Grand Niece ?
Sorry, about that . Confusing myself..
'Most important to me, Would be, is not dealing with the X. I know there are times where we all must play nice. But that's is normal. But. With texting being bigger then phone calls. I would insist that all communication with the X be done by texting. Those text being saved so SO can read them . This may require a second smartphone or iPad .
Good boundaries are a large part of a healthy relationship. As, old relationships has really ended, new relationships has started. Some people can be friends with the X. I am not one of them
Oh wow. So much to unpack
Oh wow. So much to unpack here! Sounds like she is past the reconsidering part and just needs solid advice.
A CO is necessary ASAP. Do they do 50/50? EOW? 2-3-3? Without this in place, explain to her that she will be at BMs every beckon call and their house will become a drop off spot for free childcare & try to ruin their newlywed atmosphere. BM will have her hand out for money any chance she gets once she sees an elaborate wedding being paid for.
How old is the SK? She needs to ask herself if this is something she wants for the next X amount of years. Yes, it goes beyond 18 if the kid fails to launch, but IMO younger kids are much more difficult.
Her and soon-to-be hubby need to go over how they will "parent" the kid. Will SM have a say in discipline? Is her new hubby a Disney Dad? Tell her to read into Mini-Wife Syndrome (this ESPECIALLY applies to young girls).
Yes, they definitely need to have the "ours" kid conversation as well.
*Sigh* Best wishes! Tell her to come browse the site here just to get an idea of what Step Life truly entails. We constantly see pictures on social media of happy "blended" families, Brady Bunch style. Hopefully she realizes more often than not, it's not always the case.
Wow about the paternity test.
Wow about the paternity test. Didn't think of that. Since the child is already 6, I don't think it would matter. The father is already "all in." I talked to them about my concerns. I thank all of you and recognize what I can do. Whew! I'm praying things will turn around.