On the topic of children today...
I know there's a lot of entitlement out there. But I wonder how many of you deal with children that also tread a fine line between having little self esteem yet also possessing narcissistic traits? SD here is a really beautiful girl with very low self esteem. She picks herself apart! But, she also tends to pick others apart to make herself feel better. She sometimes says inappropriate things, like, "I'm going to a meeting with the smart kids." I call her on it and then she feels bad. I told her even if that's not how you meant it, to say things like that in front of people you don't know can have them form an opinion about you. And she wouldn't like it if someone judged you based on your grades.
Well, we had a very good discussion, but I was having a hard time trying to tell her that yes, society does place a value on looking good BUT that isn't your ticket to any kind of behavior. Because she's got low self esteem issues, I don't want to tear her down, but I don't want her to continue thinking that she can look at others and rate them above / below her either.
I found this interesting q & a from a web site. Thought I'd share the Q&A and the website. http://www.narcissismepidemic.com/aboutbook.html
"Q: I’m a parent. How does the narcissism epidemic affect my kids and what can I do about it?
Children today are growing up in a world that is much more accepting of narcissistic behavior and values. Many parents and teachers believe that the way to counteract this is to teach children to feel special. Unfortunately, feeling special is narcissism, not true self-worth. As we explain further in the book, parents are more likely to raise less narcissistic children if they set limits, dial back on excessive praise, and don’t let their children have too much power. We have three young children between us, so we know this can be a struggle, but the fight is worth it.
Here are two things to teach children, just as a start:
1. Instead of teaching people "You have to love yourself before you can love others,” teach them something much closer to the truth: If you love yourself too much, you won’t have enough love left for anyone else.
2. Get across the message that being self-centered does not lead to success, and often leads to failure in the long run. It is not necessary to be narcissistic to succeed, even in a competitive world; in fact, those who are confident without being overconfident, and have self-worth while still caring about others, will be the most successful."
Just wanted to share...
- Stick's blog
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Comments
interesting
BM did some job on tearing down SD17 and it took me years to build up her self esteem and self worth....but ya know I was thinking, society as a whole has changed so much....like no real winner in kids sporting events, or "everyone gets to play".....unfortunately the world does not include everyone in everything just because its nice.....kids have to learn that they just aren't going to be good at everything they try and the world does not revolve around them and their feelings. SD was always saying she wasn't "good" at anything.....but I always said....wait....yur smile lights up a room like no other I have ever seen....u are kind to people and u have a GREAT sense of humor....that will get u further in life than being able to hit a homerun....be head cheerleader, or have the lead in the play....all those things fade away...but WHO u are sticks with u for life.....anyway....I think it is very hard to strike a good balance with a child who has low self esteem....u want to build them up, but not to the point that they become self-centered monsters........my 2 cents....
"You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar"
Lotus
That's exactly what I'm trying to figure out how to do. Strike that balance. When SD was younger, DH and I constantly gave SD a lot of compliments and tried to build her self esteem because it was so low. BM would go one way or the other with SD. Sometimes she'd be OVER praising to the point where it sounded fake. And then other times she'd look at SD and just criticize her for no reason!
BM is very superficial and all about appearances. (For example, BM came over tonight and was talking about an incident at their church. It seems that BM was pointing out to SD a little old Italian woman in church that was walks almost completely bent over.
Meanwhile SD is asking BM "not to make fun of" the little old Italian woman! Or another time, BM tells SD to make friends with the people that own a nice house because they must be rich!) UGH So those are the kinds of messages BM is sending to her daughter.
DH and I try to stress the beauty from within as well as from without. Because if you are ugly on the inside, it doesn't matter how beautiful you are on the outside.
When Sd was little she was awkward and needed all the positive feedback we could give her. Well, now she has grown into a really stunning young lady. People tell her all the time how beautiful she is. So I've backed off on that as she is getting it from other places now. But I also catch her looking at herself in mirrors and almost "posing" when she's talking to people. She has said that people look weird - one time right to the person's face! It's embarrassing and I don't like it. When SD and I get into discussions about her perceptions on beauty, she almost tries to justify it by saying, well, that's how society is!
Did your SD ever get to that point? How do you bring a child that teeters back and forth down to reality without hurting their feelings? So far, the only thing I've been able to come up with is 2 things...
If I was acting up when I was little, my dad would say, you're cute, but you're not THAT cute!! or (b) That funny saying... No matter how pretty she is, someone, somewhere is tired of her sh$t! 
So get a grip!
Any thoughts? Did you ever have to do that with SD? Is it maybe just a teenage girl thing?
I think alot of my SD's issues are of low
self esteem. I say this because she is 15, she's 5'7 (tall like her georgeous daddy), but heavy...she's 235 lbs. That's way to much for her height. I try, do what I can, but at the same time she doesn't live here and I can only do what I can do ya know. But when I talk to her about it she gets upset. She wants to borrow my shirts, but she can't fit in them. She wants to wear a bikin for the summer and I have to guide and help her to find something that's better suited for HER body.
I've made sure though that this girl knows that I honestly believe she is one of the most beautiful people I've ever met. She's georgeous. She has long brown, thick, curly hair. She has beautiful blue eyes, again from her dad, she does have a big body but she holds it well. She's beautiful inside and out and I think before I came along she didn't hear that enough. I know it's terrible to say that about her BM and my own DH, but I really believe I've boosted her self esteem to a all time high. We are working on the weight, but in the mean time I'm not going to have my daughter hurt because she feels she isn't as good as thin girls. She's already much better of a person than I'll ever be, and she's got 100 lbs on me.....I remind her of that to! She always laughs and says that I'm great to her and how much she loves me.....but I truley believe my girl is going to do some changing to this world!
She wrote a paper in school this past year about having a stepmom and the positive affect it's had on her life. Talk about tearing up!
But Stick I do believe this article is right in alot of ways. Thank you for sharing it with us!
~All you need is Faith, Trust, and a little bit of Pixie Dust~
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The only thing I do not agree with....
I would rather be hated for who I am, then loved for who I am not.
is the statement,"If you love yourself to much,you wont have enough love left for anyone else." I have raised my now 20 year old bd and my 13 year old bs to love themselves completely as wonderful creations of God, and I am attempting to do the same with my 8 year old ss. This love is not a self righteous love nor is it an arrogant love. It is a love that embraces not only our good attributes, but even our bad.It is a self love not based on physical beauty, not on success and achievments alone but a love where one learns to acknowledge the wrong decisions, words or actions we make or take,knowing that we can and must be willing to come before another with humility and take the necessary corrective measures required and learn from these moments. It is the person you face everyday, the one you can never run away from in life that you should indeed love the most, befriend first and foremost, and in all the ways possible share that same love with others. It is by our failures, our trials, our successes that we become the people we choose to become, and it is our ability to love ourselves enough to overcome what ever obstacle we may face that allows us to truly embrace and love another. Genuine love is an action directed at meeting anothers needs, its focus is not on the recieving, but the giving. One must be able to give love to oneself before one can truly give to another.
Thanks SGraham
I really love the way you put this, and I understand it in the context you wrote it. I think what you are saying has to do with self-acceptance in conjunction with self love.
I don't think the article I quoted meant "love yourself too much" in the same context you wrote above. I think it was going more along the lines of surpassing what you are teaching... where they embrace their bad attributes, but don't feel the need to adjust, or at least rein them in. Or a self love where they don't acknowledge any wrong decisions or feel that others can pay for their wrong decisions and it doesn't matter. I think that's the context that they were referring to.
But I really do love what you wrote about self-love and will show it to my stepdaughter sometime.
My question still is though.... did either of your children ever take what you teach a little too far? Did they ever become vain, and if so, how did you bring them back in? It's one thing to say that to a child... I think it's another to help them learn the balance of how to make it work every day. Does that make sense? Do you have any advice or thoughts on how to express that?
Stick,
My son took what his father taught him to far. I'm a firm believer in balance. But the once a year hero in my son's life (when he decides to be a part of his life) doesn't have the same sense of balance. He taught my son that he is #1 above anyone and everyone. He's a miniGod, of course God being the x.
I've tried for years to reverse the damage. Even to the point of telling him look son, you are great, I love you, you are a handsome little boy, but you are no better than anyone else. No matter how good you think you may be, there will always be someone better at everything. You can excel at things and be great at them, just don't ever get it in your head that you are better than anyone for anything. Especially at the age of 14..........I mean really, what are you so good at?
He looked at me with that blank stare and said "I'm really good at skateboarding and playing PS3". I laughed so much I think I embarassed him and he went to his room to pout for a while. I didn't want to hurt his feelings but I can't let his head get so big it won't fit in the front door either.
~All you need is Faith, Trust, and a little bit of Pixie Dust~
SMJ
You and I really are a lot alike. I say the same sorts of things to SD when she gets a little too big for her own britches!! (ha ha! I"m dating myself again! Yes, I am O-L-D)
I've lived with the narcissim. It is one of the traits of the
"To Thine Own Self Be True" William Shakesphere
sociopath. And after 17 years of life with a sociopath, I feel like almost an expert on narcissim.
And SD18 is a true narcissist. And I think if any of us look around, we will, indeed, notice alot of narcissistic behaviour in young people today.
Narcissim in very young (under 5) children is pretty much normal-that's why we have such a time teaching a 2 or 3 year old how to share. But people don't seem to value that as much as they used to, and in the long run, I think it's going to cost our society a great deal.
Bewitched
I'm lucky that SD15 is not a "true" narcissist. You are a much sweeter, more selfless person than I my friend.
Oh, honey, I'm not nearly as sweet and selfless as I used to be
"To Thine Own Self Be True" William Shakesphere
Darn it, I keep trying to go back to the sweet girl I used to be, before my sociopathic 1st ex came along. Then good old soon to be ex H stomped that sweetness right back out of me.
Maybe I'll take the advice of my attorney-"Marry for money, not love, the next time" LOL.
Stick...
I would rather be hated for who I am, then loved for who I am not.
Sam Keen said " You come by love not by finding the perfect person, but by seeing an imperfect person perfectly". This is the standard I chose to raise and at times reign in my children by. From as far back as possible I chose to never block from my children the pain of failure. I have never sugar coated their stumbles, their falls. I have let them feel and have shown them they have a choice in every situation. They can chose to live in self pity or they can get up, dust off and try agian. I praise them when praise is warranted. They are my children so of course they are the most beautiful children in the world, but I waste no time telling them that when they cause another pain, the beauty the hold is diminished in that persons eyes. I have taught them both that everything they do, everything they say affects another, though they may not even see it or know about it, and of course that " I love you " and " I am sorry" are indeed the easiest words to speak, but that it is action alone that shows the truth behind and beyond these words. When my kids have felt they desearve, or are entitled to, or are better than, I needed to only take them to the faces of those more deserving and have my children GIVE to them, however,I believe that it has been my raising them with God that has been the strongest influence. 6 years ago, when I left my abusive ex, my children( behind my back) sold some of their things to help put food on the table. When my daughter was 16 she went to work part time and her paychecks were willingly given to be used in our home. I succeeded in the career I am now in, I have now been remarried to the most loving and wonderful man for 4 years who is indeed my childrens father.My daughter is in college, my son is an A/B student and football player. Along the way my children have witnessed my successes and failures as I have theirs and in doing so, have truly seen that I and they are not perfect people, but we each see the other imperfect person perfectly and that is how we remain grounded and love one another.
SGraham
You write exactly the things that I have been taught by my own parents. And it is what I try to teach to SD over here. I have been in her life for 7 years!
What is sooo touchingly beautiful about your blog is the reactions of your children to this teaching. They sound like compassionate, beautiful, sweet children who see the world with empathy. I am Proud for you!!
I try to teach my SD the same things (although I don't say it as eloquently as you)... but for all of DH and I teaching her these things, she still lacks empathy. She still lacks some compassion for certain people.
It's gone as far back as I can remember. When she was smaller, we saw someone with cancer, who had no hair, and SD has beautiful hair. Her reaction wasn't "God Bless that poor person and what they go through since I love my hair", her reaction was "wow that looks weird. I'm so glad that isn't me!" And of course, DH and I were just so sad by her lack of understanding and compassion. We even told her, that someday could be you!! But she didn't care. It was weird to her.
So I ask you now, then,... is it all nurture? Or do you think some of it is nature?