Sweety, it just sounds like you are the fall back for this whole dysfunctional family and the only one that has any kind of sense - on life, on money, on love. You do sound like a parent to all these people. You're a wife and you are supposed to share in the responsibilities. You should start working on not enabling these people because it WILL get worse once that baby comes. You'll be the one taking care of it and financing everything that is in no way shape or form your responsibility.

It does at least sound like you put your foot down when its necessary - that little girl needs to grow up and learn some responsibility. And trust me, my mom booted me out when I was 19(with a 13 month old) and it was the single best thing she ever did for me. I learned to be a grown up.

Best of luck to you. But you need to look out for you not these people who don't deserve the attention you give them.

"To the ass, or the sow, their own offspring appears the fairest in creation."

I'm happy to hear no breast cancer. Everything else sort of pales in comparison, when you've got a worry like that hanging over you. I understand where you're coming from on the partnership thing, too. I would advise DH and The Belly that The Boot will be meeting The Asses if she and her offspring are not out within a reasonable time frame.

~ Anne ~

"Love, having no geography, knows no boundaries."
(Truman Capote)

but first and foremost I have to agree with Anne, who, from what I have seen has great advice and alot of wisdom. At any rate, she is right... the good news is you do NOT have cancer! I also have a lot of history of cancer in my family so I understand how scary that can be.

Now, as to the partnership thing... I can SO relate to that. My DH and I have totally different thoughts on this and the only thing I can figure is just that we were raised night and day different.

DH grew up in a house full of women, him, his mom and two older sisters. His dad left when he was 1 and died when he was 8. DH has NO experience at all with a functional marriage or "partnership".

His ex was ALOT younger than him and the only reason they got married was because she got pregnant and he figured he made his bed... At any rate, for him, his first wife was so young that it was like raising kids all the way around. She was clueless. Literally. He raised her, he taught her how to run a house, how to do laundry, how to cook, etc and so on. It was so bad, she lost the checkbook COUNTLESS times, he finally took her checkbook away and gave her credit cards and just said "call me if you are spending more than X amount of dollars..."

Then enter me...*grin*... Oops... totally different person.

And this is where our troubles begin I think. I am incredibly independent, very capable and not used to being told how to get through each and every day. I don't NEED a list... thanks anyway!

So yes, we have "partnership" issues... he is used to just making decisions. Never mind they also affect ME. He is used to "calling the shots". Never mind they also affect ME.

On the other hand I am NOT used to this. I was married before and I grew up with parents who to this day are still together. And, finally I am just who I am... independent, somewhat educated, and perfectly capable of getting through the day. I know what needs to be done, I know what is going on... I know what I need to do.

I don't like or appreciate that decisions are made without talking to me. I don't like that many times it feels like everyone else knows things before I do. I don't like that he feels that he needs to "protect me" or "take care of me"... BUT... I also know him now and I know that part of it is him and his pride. He is very gender oriented. He feels that as the man and my husband it is his place to provide for and take care of me. And it's more than that, he WANTS me to be happy... he wants to take care of me. He doesn't want me to worry. But he doesn't understand that it's my nature. I can't help it. And most importantly, he doesn't seem to understand that his thoughts and his worries are also MY worries. He doesn't get that the things that affect him also affect me.

I don't know if it's a general man thing or a *some men* thing... but I don't think they get the whole "partnership" thing. They don't get us. And then you add divorce dad guilt into it and they just want US, meaning you and his daughter or my SD and me to "bond" ... they don't get that you can't FORCE that... it will happen or it won't. So he shares his concerns with HER, hoping it will worry her like it worries him and SHE will care about you like he does and maybe she will offer the support he doesn't know how to give... does that make sense?

It is what it is...

The concept of partnership means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Even figuring out what it means to people can be hard because we all comunicate differently. There are a lot of books about communication styles (starting with John Grey's Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. Kind of simplistic and its been a few years since I have read them.

Even once you figure out comunication styles then there are also expectations in relationships. Male and female perspectives do enter the equation here -- women can expect one thing in "the partnership" and men expect something totally opposite. Age can enter the equation too -- my father always reminded me of Glenn Ford. Quiet strong, never saying "I love you" yet he always kissed my mom goodnight and my earliest memories are of their voices drifting down the alls as I went to sleep. I felt safe and always knew they loved each other and me. Ittakestwo referenced family upbringing -- and thats a great point. How were you raised versus how he was raised? Blended family versus traditional? Did one spouse have siblings who were all girls versus one who had all boys? Single child versus someone who had several siblings? Did one of the spouses come from a family that was self employed versus the other's parents who worked 9-5?

Then you add the "baggage" -- a previous marriage. Good or bad relationships with the ex and step children in the mix; financial issues left over from a divorce; stressful jobs; health issues, etc.

The good news is you don't have cancer!

Because all of these other things can work together and against each other have the two of you thought of couples counseling?

I think everything you have said makes perfect sense and yes, all these things do have to come into account. So agreed on all counts and Hooray that gertrude has been cleared of any cancer signs!! And Annes "the belly and the boot theary sounds good to me!! LOL

I just want to address Klinder and the fact that he is one of the few men who have recently come to the site and voiced his opinions, stories and advice..we used to only have to worry about Steve but he too has been scarce as he feels we can be man bashers at times. I would just like to say that on behalf of myself anyway, that I don't feel the urge to necessarily bash MEN...it can sometimes be concieved that way as the most replies and reponse comes from women here. I do my best to remember that there are men here also that listen and like to contribute, but it's kind of like a session with your best female GF on here and sometimes we forget not to generalise men as a whole.

Please don't be put out by this, or scared away as it is merely feelings of frustration toward "OUR DH" being male and sometimes all men cop it for our DH. May I add the operative word is "Dear" hubby, we still love them.

We do value a mans point of view and it is not intentional to put you all into one category So please don't be offended, but I must say you were very gentle with your response and your "Ouch" so thankyou and I for one will try to keep my generalising to a minimum

Catch xx
*Mean People Suck*

Ummm, yes, Catch is right. I certainly did not mean to offend and I was trying not to generalize too much. I do apologize if I came off as generalizing too much...

I like that you're here, I think it's good to get a man's POV on some of these issues and maybe you can help us with some of the "not understanding men" perspective. I wish sometimes that my DH would be willing to get on a board or forum like this... sometimes it's too easy to get SO caught up in what is happening in OUR lives or in OUR house... and while I certainly do not get any pleasure out of other's misfortunes I can honestly admit there are times I read things and think "Well thank God I don't deal with THAT!" Sometimes it helps me to appreciate what I do have and try to overlook some of my more *petty* frustrations I guess.

Anyway, just want you to know it wasn't my intention to generalize TOO much... and thanks so much for your input!! *grin*

It is what it is...

I actually did not take the "men" comments in a negative light. My office has three women; I work fulltime and there is one other guy who works part time. So we have a lot of banter back and forth about crazy women and worthless men. There is one lady who is happily married; the other is unhappily married and the last one is pregnant with her second child with a guy that at times she would like to ship off to a foreign country, just pick one any one.

I came here because when I broke up with Andrea I had guilt feelings. Could I have done more for her boys? What if I had done this or that? Were their actions my fault?

Heck, I grew up in a family where I was one of the first ever to get divorced. Blended family? Sure, thats got to be one of the easiest things in the world to do -- all kids are sweet and wonderful right?

I am here like most of you ladies, trying to heal a hurt. All of you have been very nice and hearing other peoples problems does help. It reinforces the things that I need to do. I imagine people come and go on here as their needs arise and depart as time constraints and needs lessen. Hopefully as they are walking away it is with good feelings and the problem (mostly) solved.

Sadly I know that I will be less likely to be involved with someone with children in the future because of my last relationship, but seeing all of you trying to address the issues might ease that feeling of mine.

Thank you all -- now you can resume the male bashing...

Just call me Kevin, please.

I take back all my offerings not bash men!! You can all be a right royal pain in the ass at times...I know My house is 4 to 1..me being the one..LOL...just didn't want to scare you off..

Catch xx
*Mean People Suck*

I knew it, just a scheming trick to get permission to begin the male bashing!

I knew it!

Smart too huh?? The worst kind!! Heheh

Catch xx
*Mean People Suck*

we need to hear the man's POV sometimes too. At least YOU are willing to read and respond and let us know your thoughts.

It is what it is...

My daughter is well balanced and even tempered. Doesn't get upset too much. Course, she just turned 12 so the true teenage years haven't started. Andreas 10 year old boys though...they were moody and emotional. Would cry and scream at nothing. Ugh. Bad memories.

that either! LMAO!!!

Seriously tho my daughter is the light of my life, maybe because she is still so young. She is happy, fun and I think very well adjusted for a child of divorce living in a blended family. BUT, if she is TIRED... watch out. The best thing for her... "Go to your room" and she goes. For whatever reason she seems to need to be told she needs a break. LOL

My son is very much like his dad, so at times he can make me crazy. He is incredibly opinionated and seems to think "everything" is up for discussion or debate. He is so busy formulating his response, he never bothers to LISTEN.

SD is now a teenager and those moods and emotions are kicking in...

Those boys do sound horrible, I remember reading about them. I guess the key is in how they're parented? I don't know.

I am curious tho Kevin, and of course I don't know you, so this is why I ask... but at our ages (and I don't know yours) so this is hypothetical I guess... do you think there's anyone out there without kids?

It is what it is...

I am 41, going to be 42 at the end of September.

Sadly, it seems like people are having kids younger and younger. I was 30 when my daughter was born. Yes, I am a lawyer and we have kids in their 20s coming into my office with 1,2,3 or more kids -- often with different fathers/mothers.

I have friends who will only date people whose kids have grown up enough to have moved out of the house. You can get that with people in their early 40s.

Mostly its younger people without kids -- mid thirties. I have found you have to be careful to find out why someone doesn't have kids; why someone isn't married at least once by this age; why someone actually got divorced; find out if they are telling the truth when they talk about the evil ex, etc.

So I guess if the desire is to find someone without kids then it is possible, and a pretty large category especially if you also add the category that the kids have grown up enough to move out to college.

I used to prefer women with kids - that way I could look to how they were with their kids as a measure of how they might be with my daughter if a relationship progressed that far. Now? I guess I am more jaded and cynical.

I sure don't want to go through what I have been going through...

I think we probably just naturally gravitate towards people with whom we share common life experiences. My sister is 34, never married, no kids. She hangs out with people like her... career-oriented, in their thirties and forties, single, etc. So I know there are kid-free people out there, because that's who my sister hangs out with. These are the people who can't understand how we can go to bed and actually SLEEP when it's only 8:30 pm! These are the people who still sleep in on the weekends, and get pissed off whwen you wake them up at ten on Saturday morning, after we've been up for HOURS.

But me, after my divorce, I was a single mom and I guess I gravitated towards dating people who would understand cancelling a date because my kid was sick, having to make sure I could get a good babysitter, not being able to do things spur of the moment because there's a child to consider. I think if you have kids, maybe you look for someone who's also a parent, rather than someone who is used to living the single and more, well, selfish lifestyle. I think I would want to be with someone who is a parent or who at least wants to be a parent, because every childless man I dated between my divorce and my remarriage was a disastrous mistake. Dating with kids is different than dating without. It's hard for childless people to understand all that goes along with it. Just the logistics of getting a babysitter can sometimes make it not seem worthwhile. So you pick someone with kids that you can go on family-type outings with, rather than kid-free romantic dinners in fancy restaurants. When you're dating, the romantic ideal is that you are the centers of each other's universes. But when you have kids, that just isn't realistic, and I think it's important to be with someone who understands that and doesn't get jealous.

For me, as hard as it's gotten in my marriage, it's never been about conflict with the kids. It's been about conflict with the kids' mother and how badly my husband handles it sometimes. I think it comes with the territory. If I had it to do all over again, I think I'd stick with dating someone with children, rather than without. The ones without can be awfully demanding.

~ Anne ~

"Love, having no geography, knows no boundaries."
(Truman Capote)

Well, Anne has a lot of good points. Thats the way I used to look at it. I was more comfortable with a lady who had kids because I placed such an emphasis on my daughter. My thought was that if she valued her children, she would value the welfare of mine.

Maybe had the lady thought more like all of you, I wouldn't be where I am mentally right now. Beat me, I thought when two people got together they pledged themselves to each other. A partnership. I know kids are important, but I thought love would conquer all.

If I thought my daugter needed medical help, she got it. I had to sit in a friggin ER room one time with the ex wife for an afternoon when my daughter hurt herself at school -- talk about ick, but I did it for my daughter.

So I am single again. 41, a moderately successful lawyer with a rapidly growing practice. Black hair (with a little gray). Older and wiser.

Kevin

I was 37 & divorced w/o kids when I met my DH. For the short time that I was on the dating scene it seemed I was a commodity because & was attractive, independant & childless. Most of the women out there in my age group were women looking for fathers for their children. Of course then there are the people who wonder whats wrong with you because you don't have children, ( got to love those judgemental idiots) in my case ex didn't want kids but kept lying that next year we would have one.

My sister is now turning 36 & is never been married & in the same situation. ( she is beautiful & very sucessful)She started dating a divorced dad with a controlling ex who also seems to be obsessed with the " it's for my daughter" syndrome. ( He spent a week at 4th of July with ex & her family & left my sister home alone by herself, all for it's best for a 2 y/o) His obsession with his daughter makes my DH go what to heck even.

My sister is in love with this guy ( they have been friends for years)and we have discussed the pros & cons of whether it is better to date divorced dads in there 30 & 40's or men who have never been married or are childless. It's a catch 22.

It really is a catch 22, but you know, I think it's a crap shoot no matter how you look at it. I mean, you can love all you can love, prepare as much as possible, search diligently for years, get your "weeding out" process down to where it's impossible to not pick out the "right" person for you, yet still wind up in a bad situation. And that's the scary thing about love. Sometimes you don't know them, even when you think you do.

The second time around, I married someone I'd known all my life. We went to school together, he dated ALL of my friends, our parents worked together... we'd been friends forever. Went our separate ways, had our separate lives, crashed and burned in our first marriages, then got together after a sixteen-year hiatus. We got married and it was wonderful, because it was so easy being with someone I'd known all my life. But then he retired from active duty, started having PTSD symptoms, and just changed, seemingly overnight, into someone I didn't even recognize. Fortunately, he's gotten help with the PTSD and we're making massive amounts of progress by the day, so I'm getting my old hubby back. But the point is, life changes you. How many of us have said we had no idea it would be this hard? That's the thing, you CAN'T know how hard it'll be until you're waist-deep in it. You can't always predict how you, yourself, will react to any given situation and you sure as hell can't predict how the other person will react, either.

But I do think that no matter how many times we shoot and miss, eventually we'll get it right and you just have to keep the faith.

~ Anne ~

"Love, having no geography, knows no boundaries."
(Truman Capote)

There are pros and cons both ways.

Meanwhile, I am working out in the gym every day. Recently I have started the work to get back involved with Big Brothers/Big Sisters. I was involved with them as a Big Brother when we met. She wanted me to spend more time with her kids, I did but now....I really got a lot out of that program.

Kevin

Catch 22?? Hell, this whole damn step-parenting, exes, blended families and marriage is a Catch 22. Sometimes you just don't know which way to turn. I think if you start analysing who you will and won't date you may end up missing something great. But I certainly wouldn't marry a man again without a friendly relationship with his ex, well not too friendly but you know what I mean. Actually I wouldn't marry again at all...you have your house, I'll have mine and we can meet on the off weeks without the kids...LOL

Catch xx
*Mean People Suck*