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New girlfriend of separated man who is emotionally attached to wife

samara's picture

Hi all, I am seeking advice bc it's all very new to me. Basically, my boyfriend of 7 months separated a year ago from his wife and they are co-parenting two girls). I agreed to date him because he made it sound like his relationship with his wife was very much dead and buried. I am now in love with him and have a very positive relationship with his girls but it has come to light that he and his wife are still very much emotionally attached. His wife has indicated that she wants us all to get along for the sake of the girls. On a couple of occasions now I have been expected to be around all of them playing happy families while my boyfriend and his wife reminisce and generally banter a lot. She is the ultimate matriarch and he seems to behave like she is his mum. I am intimidated by her and can't be myself. I feel like she is trying to control me/us by keeping things so friendly. I would prefer to have more boundaries and distance between us. My question really is, do I have the right to ask him to divorce her if he wants to keep me in his life? I feel like this would really test whether he is actually prepared to leave her in the end. They talk to each other constantly (about the kids of course) and they tend to get grumpy with each other a lot - like they are a couple who get annoyed or hurt etc. e.g. they play games and make the other wait for an answer if they feel hurt by a response etc. Seems very weird to me. P.S. I am the jealous type so it might be me that needs to adjust and be more accepting???? Of course if they both decide to get back together, that's a good outcome for the kids, but I feel like I was misled into thinking that he was further moved on from his wife than he really is, and now I have emotionally invested in this and am terrified of getting hurt.

ChiefGrownup's picture

You need to be less accepting not more. If it were me I would have told him long ago that he is not available as I do not date married men. Sayanara. In fact I did do that once. I dated this guy for awhile but when I figured out neither he nor his wife had hired a lawyer let alone filed I told him I couldn't do so any more. I thought for a couple weeks he was going to get the ball rolling but no. So I lost his number.

Out of idle curiosity recently I looked up the court records to see if they ever did divorce and they did. So I was glad to hear that. I would have been very ticked to learn I was the unwitting 3rd party in some stupid mess.

Anyway, even if your guy does divorce from what I know now about step situations this will only get more miserable for you. I recommend you move on so you can find someone wonderful AND fully available.

hereiam's picture

do I have the right to ask him to divorce her if he wants to keep me in his life?

Are you serious? Of course you do.

But it doesn't sound like a divorce will make all that much difference; it is doubtful that the way they interact will change. If they have been separated a year, he is dating, and he still does not have any boundaries, that is a huge red flag. I would get out now.

You seem to have the idea that they could even get back together. Find someone who will put you first; before the ex, or the should be ex, or whatever the hell they are.

samara's picture

Hello, thank you so much for your supportive messages and kind advice. I don't feel as crazy and demanding now. I think I will ask him to divorce her and make it clear that if the conversation isn't initiated in the next week, then to call me up once he is divorced and if I'm still single at that point, then we can talk. I don't doubt that he genuinely loves me and wants to make a new life with me. It's more that he thinks it's okay to retain his emotional attachment with her as well. The ultimatum about the divorce should clear a few things up for me - it's like they are in denial about the fact that moving on also means letting go!!! I forgot to say, her new partner was there as well so it's not like she is necessarily trying to steal him back (she's more keen to retain control of him I think). They just need to let go of each other emotionally. Thanks again. Really appreciate this advice.

samara's picture

Once again, thanks for all your advice. So if he agrees to start divorce proceedings, do you think there is a chance that it might work with us? I didn't mention but his wife started seeing another man before I came into the picture....They seem happy enough. I think he is as freaked out as me when we are all expected to hang out together in the park. God I feel stupid now for questioning whether I was entitled to feel annoyed. Thanks so much for your input. I have no-one to talk to about this really.

ChiefGrownup's picture

I feel the main problem is the very high level of enmeshment that he currently exhibits with her. I feel from what you describe it will take much more than him simply completing the divorce process to set up good boundaries with her. He would have to demonstrate good boundaries with the ex -- which INCLUDES the divorce.

I do believe that a marriage can be good and dead long before the paperwork catches up. I have no trouble with that because my own was. But I had no ties whatsoever to my ex-husband and did not hang out with him or depend on him for dead batteries or broken water heaters etc. long before the final papers. You have a guy who has a very very very long way to go before he is in charge of his own life regardless of the status of filings. He can get his divorce but you will still be stuck with a man who thinks he has to acquiesce to the demands of the ex-wife. You have no idea until you actually marry him yourself how many ways this will invade your life and crush the very oxygen out of your lungs.

So let him get his divorce and work on cutting her puppet strings. When he's finished with all that he can look you up and find out if you're still available and not a minute sooner. Most of us on this board have men who are fully divorced legally but the puppet strings are still strangling us and most of our guys are way ahead of yours in that dept. Run!

samara's picture

OMG you're all scaring me :-). Thanks for your honesty. Sounds like I have a lot to learn!!! I love this man dearly. I feel sorry for him bc she is just so domineering. It's like he has been brainwashed into serving her over the years. I know he wants to leave her and be with me but it's like he can't break out of the dynamic where he does things to stop her from getting annoyed (partly bc he's afraid she'll stop letting him have as much access to the kids - but not sure if I believe that one).

Those of you who have stood by your partner while he got a divorce, can you give me some examples of why I should run now and wait until he's divorced, please? Can't I just leave it to them to sort out and not get involved??? Beee

samara's picture

This already sounds very familiar to me. I see this is exactly what she is doing now. What is the best way to handle a woman who does this? Ignoring her makes her more enraged and likely to give him more trouble!

still learning's picture

"It's like he has been brainwashed into serving her over the years"

Hello, they were married...oh and they still are.

notsurehowtodeal's picture

"do I have the right to ask him to divorce her if he wants to keep me in his life?"

This line really jumped out at me. Do you really need to ask yourself that question? You must think pretty poorly of yourself that you think it might be wrong to ask your boyfriend to divorce his wife for you. (I do not mean that in a snarky way ! You deserve to have a man completely to yourself - you deserve a man who wants to be only with you.

I agree with the others - tell him goodbye for now and ask him to call you when the divorce is final. In the mean time, try some therapy to help with your confidence and self worth. You definitely deserve more than you are getting right now.

samara's picture

Ok, the last thing I'd like advice on before I take the brave step of saying goodbye till his divorce is finalised, if I had posted my concerns on a discussion thread set up for individuals who are "co-parenting" children (rather than stepparents), do you think they would sympathise with my partner and his ex more? For example, a lot of what goes on between my partner and his wife he puts down to "co-parenting". I don't know much about this and am just going by what my gut tells me is acceptable or not.... Just say you had agreed to co-parent your children post separation, wouldn't this entail constantly being in contact with your ex and presenting a united front to your kids? - which could explain some of their behaviour??? I guess it's the fact they get shitty and play games/ignore each other etc that rings the warning bells.....

samara's picture

Thanks again Mouth of madness. Ok, so I can confirm that nearly everything they talk about is about the kids. However it's the frequency of contact (three or four messages a day, at least one phone call a day. Way more than he and I communicate when we are not together. I think she uses the kids as a way to keep up the constant contact. Then she sends messages like "could you please stop ignoring my message (even though it's only been a few hours and not an urgent matter she want's him to deal with. Just seems controlling.

NotTheMami's picture

Satan was in a relationship with the most recent man she had an affair with and she caught an attitude when my SO told her about me. My SO took 24 months to get his divorce finalized.

You won't start to realize how much stuff other then their kids ties them together until the divorce proceedings actually start and how you can't speed up refinancing of assets.

If you decide to stick around during the process be prepared for some mentally and emotionally exhausting moments. Let go of the idea that you can make it go faster ( I am a fixer and struggled immensely with my SO "I'll just wait personality"). Lawyers only care about money and depending on your state the process can be held up bc of their rules.

I'll be honest I had a timeline in my mind to leave him if things kept on much longer. You can talk about marriage and having kids together all you want but at the end of the day, he is legally married and it's not to you. My SO and i were on the dame page on major things i wouldnt not have stuck around otherwise.

So it can work how much are you willing to put up with or give up for it to get to the finish line? Only you know your breaking point.

samara's picture

Thanks "notthemami". See, I know I am probably being naïve but I figure, if he commences the divorce proceedings, that will be enough for me for now - and the rest I will just have to deal with. For example, I am too old to have kids myself so no hurry finalising the divorce to facilitate that. Also, I am financially secure, actually quite well off - so if division of his assets stretches out, it's their problem (we still live separately and he rents. (He's well off too so he's not like a gold digger ha ha). I can only imagine how frustrating the divorce stage will be bc he is the avoidant type and will not drive anything. However if he is prepared to send her the clear message he wishes to end their marriage I can put up with the inevitable messiness that will ensue.

samara's picture

Couldn't agree more thank you "mouth of madness". Once I give the ultimatum to him about commencing divorce proceedings if I see him hesitating or she goes ballistic, I'll know that there is a serious issue behind it and walk. I do suspect they are both being lazy and putting off commencing the divorce possibly. It's not something you look forward too is it! The bottom line is it is starting to really distress me (to be fair, in my country you can't divorce until you have been separated 12 months, which is this week). In my view, there is no longer an excuse to not talk about commencing proceedings.

Cadence's picture

"or she goes ballistic"

Do be careful with this, because with the bossy controlling woman, him going ahead and making decisions for his life (like filing for divorce) will cause her to go ballistic even if she doesn't want him back. It is an indication that she wants to maintain control over him, which is extremely likely in your case.

Many parents who are splitting soothe themselves about the loss by telling themselves that they still have to coparent. It gives them a way to avoid fully letting go, for whatever reason.

My BM, and yours too, probably wants to have her cake and eat it too. She wants the security of your boyfriend (he knows her well, she can guilt him into helping her, and she doesn't want to truly be a sole parent on her time) and the excitement and romance of someone new. So divorce will mean literally nothing to her, because she will feel entitled to your boyfriend still putting her first and call it "being a good father" and "coparenting". It's simple selfish entitlement and a refusal to be respectful and let go of him. Again, if you stay with him, I guarantee she'll do this.

I believe the enmeshment can be worse in dysfunctional relationships that are long over with by the time the two people split. Think about it - they're already used to living as roommates and the romance is long gone. So the idea is that nothing has to change between them, aside from new loves and new living locations, because they aren't attached romantically. Except attachment runs much deeper. Like it or not, they are used to putting one another first, and think they can continue it after the split "because kids." This means they are not available for new relationships because they're still in one. I see your boyfriend doing this, and you meekly waiting for the day when you get to be the only woman in his life.

Getting him to commit to a divorce is merely the initial step, and will not compel him to grieve his marriage and emotionally divorce her as well. That's your real challenge, and the only one who can make it happen is him. You cannot push him into it, and you also cannot be a doormat sitting around and being supportive of him at the cost of your self-respect and unmet needs. It has to come from him and in an acceptable timeframe for you.

samara's picture

Excellent advice thank you Get er' done. I think they are being very selfish - they have set things up to cover all of their emotional needs (i.e. the kids are okay, they have new partners who make them feel 20 again! and they are keeping their emotional bond in place). I really like your suggestion that I say I am looking closer at boundaries around dating married men. I also agree, they are role-playing a divorced couple, trying it on for size.

Taking it more casually doesn't seem to be an option. He has really pushed for me to be fully assimilated into his kids lives and now I love them now and they love me. They cry if I say I'm not coming over (or so he tells me!)

ChiefGrownup's picture

Be very very cautious with this. Loving someone else's kids is a very risky business. You will never have real authority over these children and there are a million scenarios wherein YOUR heart will get broken with none of the compensation that the real parents have to get them through.

When your boyfriend does file for divorce, for instance, the skids may get the idea that this is a terrible thing and it's all YOUR fault of course! You will be villainized. Believe me, that's not as much fun as it sounds. (sarcasm)

There are a thousand stories on this board of stepmoms who had a great relationship with the skids until they got engaged/married/mom got out of jail/mom broke up with her boyfriend/dad had a new baby/smom and dad bought a new house. With real parents, these various changes in life are potholes in a connection that is very hard to break -- natural child and parent. But with a stepparent, the center of gravity is that you are the outsider hence the scapegoat. It takes all kinds of things to go right to move you out of that role but one tiny thing to slam you back into it. It will always be your default position. There are tons of us here, myself included, who once had great relationships with skids who now hate us. Are we bad people? Or is there something insidious about the role of stepparent itself? (hint: bells ringing on the second one)

If this man loves you and wants a life with you, let him make that happen. Stop doing the work for him by putting your own very natural and reasonable needs aside.

AVR1962's picture

If the divorce is not final it could be that your presence could be attracting her to want his attention. She might actually find it flattering to reminisce to sow o you that you do not have the relationship with him. My thought here is that you are treading in some very shallow water. Your bf might have been lonely or on the rebound, perhaps he wanted to make her jealous. Getting involved with a man before the divorce is final is not a good idea, there is far too much emotional sorting he has yet to do and it cannot even begin until those papers are signed.

I feel it is your best interest to tell him that you do love him and enjoy his company but that you can see that there is still love between them and they need time to sort this thru. Tell him that you feel you need to let him have time to sort things out and if he still feels for you once the divorce is final then you can get together then. I know that is coming from someone who is not emotionally attached to the situation but you could really get hurt here and the more time you invest the bigger the hurt. 7 months is new and if he wants you he will sort this out and be back.

samara's picture

What are the warning signs of rebound girl? (or have u already described them in my original post LOL)

Cadence's picture

Honey, please locate your backbone. You are putting up with way too much with a guy who is in no hurry to divorce his wife. It is as if you are settling for being his mistress, but a visible one instead of a hidden one.

Did you really have to ask if it's fair for you to ask him to initiate divorce proceedings? ... What would you say to your best friend if she came to you with this question about her boyfriend?

Many people get so confused over how a split should work when there are kids involved. Every dysfunctional tie in the world is attributed to the "but there are kids involved." A breakup from the other parent of the children should look like any other breakup - two people who are done with one another. They merely need to manage the raising of the children and are nothing more than coworkers working jointly on a project, with neither one reporting to the other. They are a very small piece of one another's lives, and each one has a personal life that takes priority over their coworker. That's all it needs to be.

Now, some exes can manage actual friendships, but for this to work, both need to have solid boundaries, fully accept the split (including the demotion in the other's life), and want to move on to have a new number one in their personal life. Without these things, they will stay tied together in a way that prohibits moving on, and the sad truth is that they like it that way.

If you have recognized that your boyfriends ex is a matriarch and he does what she wants as if he were one of her children, then you will never ever ever find happiness with him unless he recognizes it and wants to work to change. But like most passive men, he will make every excuse in the book to continue meeting her emotional needs and keeping her as first in his life. There will never be room for you.

So, yes, tell him to divorce her and see what he does. Make your decision from there.

I met my SO when he was still separated. I told him on our second date that I was not okay dating someone who was still married. (I didn't tell him to do anything, I merely stated my boundary.) The next morning he filed for divorce. And even then, him leaving behind the enmeshed codependency he had with BM was a years-long process.

still learning's picture

You're the third wheel. Step out of their cozy dynamic for a while and see what happens. I would bet $$$ that they get back together.

hereiam's picture

He has really pushed for me to be fully assimilated into his kids lives and now I love them now and they love me. They cry if I say I'm not coming over (or so he tells me!)

You need to really be careful, here, it sounds like he is manipulating. At 7 months in and with him still being married and so enmeshed with his maybe-soon-to-be-ex-wife, he should not be pushing you into his kids life and vice versa.

I think there is a lot more going on than you realize.

samara's picture

Thanks again everyone for your comments. It's really interesting to read all of your different perspectives on this. Like I said, this is all new territory for me and I guess, I just needed to have my concerns validated. I spoke with my boyfriend last night (we don't live together by the way) and he has told his wife he wants to commence legal action so they can formalise the end of their marriage. She wasn't happy and has now told him that he cannot collect the girls from her house and that she is not prepared to drop them off at his. He told me that he cannot wait to have her out of his life and that as much as he can't wait to start a new life with me, he is getting the divorce for himself. Tommar24365. The comment about "looking closer at boundaries for dating married men, was in relation to a suggestion from another person on this thread as an alternative to giving my boyfriend an ultimatum about getting a divorce.

I can understand that all of this rings warning bells for many of you who've been put though the ringer. I will certainly stay on this blog and seek further advice as things progress. It will be interesting to see where I am at in a year's time... Thank you all again. It's really lovely that complete strangers on the opposite side of the world are prepared to share their stories and advice in such an honest way. Much appreciated.

ChiefGrownup's picture

Samara, I actually feel it's a great sign that he said he's getting the divorce for himself. That is perfect. PERFECT. That means he's willing to do the work it takes and he's not looking to blame or resent you.

The fact the mom reacted the way she did is textbook. It also shows her true purpose in keeping you under her wing was so she could control the whole situation, getting him back if and when she wanted.

Since her tactic is to cut off kids now you may find yourself in the position I was talking about upthread sooner rather than later as far as the kids attitudes go. BM probably has been busy telling them how it's all your fault and what an evil dragon you are since the moment your bf asked for the real divorce.

samara's picture

Thanks chiefgrownup. Since I wrote my last post she' a told him she's not prepared to tolerate his rudeness or how he makes her feel anymore blah blah blah. He's just ignoring it and asking her to try to put feelings aside and keep things focused on the kids. It's like she wants emotion from him and is inventing a big drama - like he has mistreated her - when he's actually completely polite to her, hence my meltdown last weekend bc they were so chummy! As for the girls, my gut tells me that they are unlikely to change how they relate to me. They really like me a lot and we've grown close very fast. They also like the BMs new man. They really are special kids. They know she kicked daddy out and was dating again before he did.

Can she actually cut the kids off without breaking the law?

ChiefGrownup's picture

With no custody order? Sure! Next question is do BMs like this withhold children all the time in spite of it being against the law? Sure! All the time! Read more of these forums and blogs.

But what is even more common is that she will find excuses that sound plausible such as possible fevers, school or sport events that are suddenly scheduled, and mostly she will just the kids all upset or bribed in some way to not want to go. So then dad is in the position of being the mean monster who is forcing them to miss the fun thing with their friends or the monster who makes them go to his house at all.

Good luck with this.

samara's picture

Interstingly, BM has today accused my boyfriend of putting on an act last weekend to look like he treats her kindly in front of everyone at the birthday party whereas in reality he is rude to her (she says)....ie. he doesn't hang around during the swap over and be all chummy. Maybe what set me off last weekend wasn't reflective of how they normally relate (and ironically, I needn't have had a meltdown after all ?

samara's picture

She also says she's not going to tolerate his moodiness anymore. My question is, why does she think she has the right to comment on his moods anyway. He communicates with her in a civil way ....it shouldn't be her issue if he is moody or not and even if he was moody occasionally, if she was really over him, why would she care whether or not he was moody? I'd never call a work colleague or friend on their moods!

ChiefGrownup's picture

Of course not. She's ridiculous. But she's just acting as we thought she would. She wants to control him, keep him. The "friendliness" was never anything but a facade. You're seeing more of the true her.

samara's picture

Hello everyone, not sure if this post will get seen as there hasn't been much activity for a couple of weeks but anyway.... The BM has been driving me nuts this last fortnight. Her new thing is to send my boyfriend messages saying that he is not coping with co-parenting (bc he forgets to pack shoes or socks and completed the school wrong assignment with his daughter) so she is now saying that if he can't cope than she should have the girls full time. I'm worried that she is trying to paint a picture that he is not a good father. Because he completed the wrong school project (it was a miscommunication which she probably set him up to fail on) she is now saying that he doesn't care about their kids' education. It's completely over the top and dramatic. The trouble is, he has been so badly worn down by her over the years, he is now doubting his own abilities. He really is an exceptional father who is completely committed and works very hard. My real issue with this, I guess, is that when she is sending abusive and critical messages, he gets really upset and his ability to be "present" in our relationship is impacted. I spend a lot of time trying to make him feel better and offering advice on how he could handle things(i.e. I put a lot of emotional energy into it), then a day or so later he will carry on as if nothing happened and they will be back to being completely amicable again and it's like he is on a high because of the relief that she is leaving him alone. I feel like she is controlling his happiness. I also think he could be more proactive in finding a way to stop her from controlling his emotions e.g. insist that she cease sending him messages designed to upset him. Instead he just ignores them - but then in reality he is upset all day which affects the quality of our time together. Not knowing that they had "made up", I sent him a link to some tips on how to deal with "attacks" from the ex and he made a comment that relations hadn't deteriorated to that point yet (as if I was being dramatic).

Even though their relationship is becoming more and more toxic, the hot and cold nature of it is increasingly consuming his attention - which is obviously her goal. Perhaps I just need to suck it up given that they have just started divorce proceedings - just accept that it will be crappy time for a while?

ChiefGrownup's picture

Crappy for awhile? It will be crappy forever. She is behaving exactly as we said she would. She's PASing the kids, engineering dad's "failures" and you bet your sweet bippy commenting on these "failures" directly to the kids themselves. And demanding full custody because of his "inadequacy." Believe me she is now or will soon plant the idea in the kids heads that these "inadequacies" are evidence of his not caring about them. Do not think your skids are so special they will never fall for this. The power of BM is jaw-dropping.

Some practical tips: 1. Do not pack clothes. Buy clothes for dad's house. Keep them at dad's house. Wear exclusively them at dad's house. Kid should walk through the door with just her schoolwork, no suitcase. 2. Dad should deal with the school directly. Do not give bm a chance to set him up like that. 3. Set up Our Family Wizard for communications. End the sappy texts.

Now, for you, no, do not take on the burden of his emotional roller coaster with bm. You have already gotten a taste of where that gets you: you're busy solving it, doing research, emotional energy only to find he's already made up with her and now is throwing shade at your efforts and concern. How nice for you. :/

I'm not super into disengagement myself but in your case I would recommend it. At least insofar as being dh's emotional nursemaid in re bm. Tell him you have faith he can handle her exactly as he wants. You just don't want to hear it any more. Say that with a smile. Don't be angry. Just hand the whole mess back to him. Right now he is taking a bunch of s&%t from bm and tossing it over to you and you are catching it. Take off your catcher's mitt. Make him deal with the stinkpile himself. If he had been working with you as a respectful partner this step might not be necessary. But he does not get to take up all that space in your head for bm's crap then turn around and reject you for your trouble.

Cadence's picture

This is now an old post, but I'm going to say this anyway: textbook stuff, Samara.

She thinks that she and the kids are a package deal. She counts her needs as what the kids need, therefore when Dad isn't doing what she wants, she says he's being a bad father. You're right that her policing his "moods" and how he "treats her" doesn't make sense and isn't a concern, but she makes herself a package deal with the children. She thinks that he's only being a good father if he continues to prioritize her.

In other words, she doesn't know what divorce means (yes, even when there are kids) and she's bound and determined to not learn. She is going to manipulate him like hell to go back to being under her control, because she likes that feeling. That's exactly what she's doing and it's up to him to see it.

None of it makes sense, because it's not logical. She's made connections in her mind that are improper and don't belong. The question is whether your boyfriend can both see that and act on that, or if she is still able to play upon his guilt and passivity to manipulate him.

Many passive men believe that mothers, via the virtue of popping a kid out of their twat, have this infinite ~wisdom~ and that they are entirely ~unselfish~ and ~speak on behalf of the children~ and men are dumb and stupid. Your boyfriend needs to open his eyes and stop buying into BM's toxic version of the world.

Divorce means the end of the relationship. All of her complaining about how he's treating her means she's absolutely shocked that he's not placing her all important feeeeeeelings first in his life, and she is then punishing him for this infraction via the children. She is being an incredibly selfish person. A sane mother wants her children to have a good relationship with their father, no matter how he treats her. What matters is how he treats his kids, and that is 100% separate from her emotions.

This link summarizes many of the toxic things she is doing: http://shrink4men.com/2011/05/17/does-your-wife-or-ex-wife-have-a-golden...

My BM meets 13 out of the 15. This type of woman needs a passive and compliant man lacking in self-esteem to buy into her bullsh*t. Now you are dating that man. Has he worked on himself such that he will be able to see how BM manipulates him and do something about it, or will he scramble to keep the peace with her, "for the kids"? If it is the latter, run far and run fast.

You are a threat to her now. You, via his desire to place you first in his life, are a threat to what she wants, and you are now a target. This is all classic stuff, Samara. I've been through this, and it nearly destroyed me. I'm a nice person, I'm logical, and it was one of the worst times of my life.

If you haven't already left, you need to scrutinize the decisions he is making. Each and every one. And you need to place aside your people-pleasing nature, and be ready to disappoint him (and yourself) by leaving. Your backbone is what you need to prioritize, because if you don't, you will get sucked into their misery, too.

Cadence's picture

" I guess, is that when she is sending abusive and critical messages, he gets really upset and his ability to be "present" in our relationship is impacted. I spend a lot of time trying to make him feel better and offering advice on how he could handle things(i.e. I put a lot of emotional energy into it), then a day or so later he will carry on as if nothing happened and they will be back to being completely amicable again and it's like he is on a high because of the relief that she is leaving him alone. I feel like she is controlling his happiness. I also think he could be more proactive in finding a way to stop her from controlling his emotions e.g. insist that she cease sending him messages designed to upset him. Instead he just ignores them - but then in reality he is upset all day which affects the quality of our time together. Not knowing that they had "made up", I sent him a link to some tips on how to deal with "attacks" from the ex and he made a comment that relations hadn't deteriorated to that point yet (as if I was being dramatic)."

Ah, yes. The gaslighting. I've been through that, too.

I also had the man burying his head in the sand and insisting that the woman tearing him down and sending 50 abusive texts in a row calling him an awful father and with the man telling me he he had a "friendly working co-parenting relationship." Uh, where is that? Did he have kids with another woman that I don't know about? Because that one ain't amicable, it's abusive.

I saw the cycle of her abusing him, him unable to function in life, and then him allowing her to pretend nothing ever happened because it mean the abuse stopped.

He is prioritizing her. You aren't crazy, he's just feeding you lines because it is more important to him that she be kept happy than you being kept happy. The abuse is what is comfortable to him and he is scared to fully leave it behind him, because he trusts her version of reality. She gaslights him, then he gaslights you. It is all done to not upset the sick toxic system she has spent years building up.

Leaving an abusive woman for a healthy one isn't enough. He also has to make a mental and emotional switch. Until he does that, he will always prefer keeping the woman who abuses him happy. It's hard to know that because you care, and because you would never stoop to treating him the way she treats him, that you will be de-prioritized and he will make decisions that make her happy and upset you.

It means you are not first in his life, despite his words. His actions don't match his words, do they?

Have you ever seen the movie "Ghost"? Whoopie Goldberg has a line in it that says "You in danger, girl." And, allow me to be Whoopie to you and say "YOU IN DANGER, GIRL."

hippiegirl's picture

"for the sake of the kids" my ass! If I had a nickel for every time I heard that bullshit, I could retire at 45. It's just an excuse to hold on to the past, is all it is.

If I were you, I'd get the hell out of there. It can only go downhill from here.

This BM sounds like a type-A psychopath.

samara's picture

Thanks very much Chief Grownup and hippiegirl.

The practical tips are most helpful and I have suggested to my boyfriend that we do a big shop to get our own set of everything to obviate the need to swap things constantly. I'll also check out this Family Wizard thing. Sounds great.

I saw her twice on the weekend at kid's school events and she has gone very cold on me. No eye contact and no conversation, no hello, no goodbye. A big change from the friendly "get to know you" meetings she set up a month or so ago. Think she was just checking me out so she could see what she was up against and now she knows, she sees no need to keep up the pleasantries.

kgarr67's picture

No matter if he get a divorce or not they will always be connected to each other because they have children together.....My husband was recently divorce and I was getting a divorce when him & I got married. I had a son 14 and he had 2 children 3 & 7. My son was 14 and lived with his dad. I had to communicate with ex until he was 18. After that I was done and I no longer speak or have any dealings w/him. My husbands children are now 16 & 20. We have had to deal with the stupid ass Bitch since we have been together. She never leaves us alone. She was always taking us to court for more child support or sewing us for all kinds of stupid shit. My husband always gave into her for years but after about 10 years he finally saw the real her and he does not speak to her now. We turned the tables on her and now recently got custody of the youngest and she pays us CS and she hates it. The way I look at it is: what comes around goes around. SHe's getting everything she deserves then some. She put us thru hell, and now she the victim. Poor poor pitiful her.
If I was you I would run and don't look back. It will never get better because they have that bond, the children! If I had to do it all over again, I probably wouldn't of stayed were I'm at now. Still wonder about leaving now. Just too much drama. It's been 14 years for me. Sad

Cadence's picture

"they will always be connected to each other because they have children together.."

False. They legally have to interact until the child is 18, then nothing.

I don't count having to be in the same room at a wedding, funeral, or baby shower as "being connected forever." If so, me and third cousin Bertha twice-removed are positively ~soulmates.~ Yeah, seeing someone in a room a few times in multiple decades ain't a "forever connection."

This garbage about "forever connected" is just more propaganda from the "Mothers are Saints and Should be Worshiped for Merely Reproducing while Fathers are just Dirt on their Shoe" movement called parenting in the era of social media. If people want to believe that f*cking raw and having a child, like the entirety of the animal kingdom, means a soul connection, then go for it. But they believe it because they want to believe it, and because they are deathly afraid of not being special to the other parent anymore.

My parents are divorced. If I told them they were "forever connected" they'd spit out their drinks on me while laughing hysterically.

It's a ridiculous and 100% unnecessary concept.

StepLady's picture

This is why you should NOT stay. You take care of his kids, work around the house, help with whatever you have to. He has sex with you, gives you companionship, and works on a relationship with his ex, full time. You will be his sounding board for issues with her. You will resent it and her. She intimidates you so you won't take it up with her, you'll argue with him about it, he will tell her. You will feel insecure and angry over that. They have a "family" and it will come first, before your needs and wants. If you try to change their relationship they will both resist you. You will be the scapegoat for any bumps in the road. You will be extremely unhappy and then broken down. You will not find what you want with this man. Sorry. It is the truth. Work on yourself and find true happiness. It will get better.

Rags's picture

All I read was your headline.  Why are you dating anyone  who is enmeshed with their X?

Stop it!

He is a failed man with a failed family.  His X is a failed woman with a failed family.  You are not a failure and you do not have a failed family.  Their failed family is not yours and their failed family progeny are not your children or your responsibility.