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The term PAS has become over used just like the word bully.

My step sister was pas'd by her mom 30 years ago. I have only met her 2 times. We were young and could have been friends. My SF wasn't perfect but didn't and still doesn't deserve the treatment he got. His ex really thought she was all innocent and protecting her "baby" barf. My siblings and I turned out awful with good jobs and caring SOs. SF had a lot to do with it because our dad died. It sickens me that BMs could do that to a child and I think there is a lot of pas'sing happening either for spite or unconsciously.

I think it is very common. I know in our case we have never said a bad word against BM to SS, but she has gone out of her way to demean us in any way possible, even recently telling SS that she left DH because he was a 'sex-crazed fuckup'. Who says that to a child about their father? (not true also!)

My ex really does PAS my daughter against me. He says shit like "I'm so disappointed in you, you're becoming just like your mother" or "Your mother has been irresponsible and foolish her entire life, what makes you want to be like her" or "Your mother is worthless, why do you even want to be around her?"

And we know for a fact that BM is poisoning SD14's mind against DH. A few of SD's words were definitely BM's DH has said. And she claims BM is just a saint and would never do anything harmful to her or allow her to engage in any type of risky behavior because she just loves her too much. HA! That's why SD ended up having sex at BM's house while BM was at work at age 13...and BM allows SD to take her phone to bed with her every night so SD got busted sexting her boyfriend and having him meet her in her yard so she could give him head? Yeah, sure, BM would never harm you, SD! She's an amazing mother.

PAS is real and it's been going on for a long time. Naming it as "PAS" is a recent phenomenon, though.

OP, how do you KNOW you are not doing it to your child? You say your counselor agrees you don't - Is that based on what you've told counselor or what the kids have told counselor?

What has your DH's girlfriend done to inspire hatred from your adolescent daughter?

Not saying it can't happen but you seem to be on-board and (maybe?) egging your daughter on in her justificationn for "hating" her dad's GF?

(Adolescents, by the way, are all known to be drama-free, never exaggerate and never hate anyone without a lot of justification!)

Of course, since you are posting as a BM and not a SM, answers will be provided from differing perspectives.

Yes. I believe PAS is real and it can be subtle or direct.

If the parents hate each other, PAS is sometimes difficult to avoid. PAS finds its roots in that animosity. It's easy to classify PAS as subtle (ie. "Oh my goodness you are shivering! Didn't your Dad give you a sweater? I would never let you venture out in the cold without a sweater!" or direct (i.e. "Your Dad lost his job because he's an idiot!").

PAS is like a combat maneuver and like combat maneuvers there are an endless combination of direct and indirect moves that can be made to PAS a child. The end result runs the risk of completely shutting out a child emotionally from the other parent.

I also believe that PAS is a knee-jerk reaction. A statement said in a moment of anger could result in PAS even if the end goal was to never alienate the child from the other parent. Children are like emotional sponges and they quickly learn to adopt a parent's feelings towards some people; be it another parent, grandparent, cousin, neighbor, friends, etc.

>It hit the fan, she didn't know about wife #2. <

ROTFLMAO!!!!

I had no idea what PAS was or how bad it could be until I married my DH three years ago, and watched how his ex behaved. She has been in therapy for 20 years. We agree that her diagnosis is most likely BPD. She hates my DH with a deep and abiding passion, and first tried to bar DH from visitation with a false restraining order. When this was thrown out of court, she did her best to wreck our marriage by dumping SD, then 12, on us a few months later. Literally told DH "Don't bring her back" when we picked the child up for a weekend. But we managed for almost 2 years to give the child a normal life, and I am proud of our success, and the progress SD made academically and socially. BM couldn't stand it, so she began her campaign to alienate SD, which has resulted in SD returning to live with her mother, and DH having only a weekly phone call for contact with his child. So, IMHO, PAS is real, it can be devastating, and normal people don't do it. I never saw anything like it with any divorced couple I ever knew before. But this website has a large number of step-parents who are dealing with high conflict situations, with constant litigation, and crazy behavior by the ex. Statistics show most litigation in divorces and custody situations is fueled by personality disordered people. If you have the bad luck to get in the middle of such a situation, you are totally unprepared for the venom and hatred of one person toward another, and it seems unreal and it is really tragic for the child. My SD is now in an alternative school, which she does not need, and has become socially isolated, and is back to being dressed in Goodwill and yard sale clothes. She could have had a normal high school life, but her mother had to take her in order to hurt my DH. Her daughter is just another weapon to use to express her hate.

Many parents BOTH Moms and Dads do engage in PAS behavior. Sadly, most don't realize it however.

I was 15 when my parents got divorced and they BOTH did it. My Dad would speak horribly about my Mom and my Mom constantly bashed my Dad. They both attempted to alienate me and my Brothers from the other and turn us against each other. So, yes I do believe in it because I experienced it myself. Both of my parents DENY it!!

DH and I NEVER say ONE word about BM's around either of my SD's, EVER. We don't bring them up at all. If SD's mention their BM's we either ignore the comment or kindly respond with a positive reinforcement, like "That's really neat." "Good for your Mom." etc etc

HOWEVER, both BM's in my case constantly tell SD's stories about DH, dig up the past, make hateful remarks and are bitter, angry and jealous.

If you make negative remarks around your children about their Father, that IS a form of alienation and PAS.

I think this sort of behavior occurs very very frequently. I do believe, like anything else, it is on a continuum-to very severe to very mild. I will tell you right now I have made PAS sorts of statements to my ss in the past-not severe ones, but rather mild ones. My dh has, My bm has. Lots of people do.

To identify it as acutal PAS-in terms of the syndrome I think there needs to be a pervasive pattern of this behavior not an occassional comment here or there. My former sd was PASed horribly by her mother growing up-old school, before PAS was considered as a syndrome. She was literally told, your father ruined our lives, he cheated on me (he actually didnt and certainly not with me), your father caused me to have a nervous breakdown, he is evil-all the way to I believe your father molested you-when he and I got together she was told, "he loves her more than you, he will ignore you now that she is around, she will be jealous of you, she will hate you," and so on and so on. To the point, where as a teen this girl did not even feel "comfortable" living with us. She would point blank say, "I dont know why I feel this way, I just feel like I'm supposed to be with my mom". I think there is more press about it now, it is more recognized and hopefully that will decrease its occurrence-but as i said I think it occurs on a subtle level quite frequently.